Othismos true nature

[Paullus Scipio]

Giannis wrote:-

I have to point out that the foot normally looks to the side when in the first phase of the strike.Like in my avatar. Then,with the hip twist,the foot turned somewhat in front

....if we are talking about 'text-book' technique ( which might go out the window in battle) it is important that the right foot not be turned, nor pivoted on ( which produces weak leg drive), but be turned forward so as to drive powerfully....this is strongly emphasised in martial arts training ( but we must remember that few Hoplites were 'martial artists' trained by Hoplomachai !! )

Some may have been fighting in a way you would call "wrong".

...indeed! One only has to look at the fluidity displayed in those videos to realise that massed fighting can be quite 'fluid', even in a confined space, and textbook stances hastily adapted to fast-changing circumstances......

Again remember that the shieldshad to be locked. Can such movements not couse disorder with the right over left shield overlap?

....some confusion here, I think. 'close order'/ pyknosis has each man on a three foot/90cm front carrying a three foot/90 cm aprox shield, so shields would be just touching rather than overlapped. In Hellenistic manuals for phalangites with two foot/60-70 cm shields, a purely defensive formation called synapsismos/locked shields is described where each phalangite has an 18 inch/45-50 cm front and the shields, necessarily sloping back because of the two-hand grip, must overlap somewhat. I believe that for Hoplites, pyknosis and synapsismos were largely the same, but with shields touching and not significantly overlapped....

What is important,is that once the rear rankers started pushing,then the hoplites were pressed with chest on their shields.

As Paul B. will tell you, I am not an advocate of his rather sophisticated Othismos model for all sorts of reasons. Here it is important to note that in our historical sources, othismos usually only occurs at the end of battles, when both sides are fairly exhausted, and vulnerable to their line being physically "shoved" - the result with fresh men is, I imagine like what you see in the videos with the 'massed charge' - the receiving mass of men is too 'elastic' and the momentum of any shove 'absorbed' by a deep formation pushing back ( and even four deep suffices).