03-22-2024, 11:41 PM
Nathan wrote:
But again we have the problem that the full number does not divide by the number of centuries, which the other estimates from earlier history do - Josephus's 120 legion cavalry give us 2 horsemen per century in the legion. Vegetius (II.6) gives 66 horsemen per cohort, and 132 in the first cohort. But 275 Veredarii cannot be divided by either ten (my version) or twenty (your version) centuries.
First mistake is not to count the number of officers for the cavalry when dividing by the number of centuries in a legion.
Nathan wrote:
Milner's note on p.36 has Vegetius 'artificially conceive' the size of the cavalry component by adding two 32-man turmae and two decurions. So the original turma would presumably be 33 men, including decurion. Whether this has any grounding in fact is another matter!
A 33-man cavalry squadron works for me.
Nathan wrote:
EDIT - looking more into the mess of the Vegetian 'antique legion' system, it appears that he is dividing each of his cohorts into 5 centuries - giving 111 men per century in a normal cohort and 221 in the first cohort; both figures include the centurion.
I love Vegetius. His 6,000-infantry legion is historical. Academia has failed to understand the many military doctrines of the Roman army. Vegetius’ mistakes have come about due to Vegetius getting confused about the billeting arrangement of the legion, when in camp. And this is quite easy to do. The fact that no academic has recognised these military doctrines for the last 400 years proves this. And to prove my point, I will share some of my research, which will most likely be plagiarised in one form or another.
When in camp, the 10 cohorts of 600 infantry in a 6,000-infantry legion are rearranged into 12 cohorts each of 500 infantry. Isidore states the 6,000-man legion has 60 centuries, 30 maniples and 12 cohorts. Oh, cried academia, Isidore does not know what he is talking about, a legion does not have 12 cohorts.
Oh yes it does! When in camp, cohort 11 is distributed amongst the 10 cohorts, thereby allocating each cohort 50 infantry, bringing the total of cohorts 1to 10 to 550 infantry per cohort, organised into five centuries each of 110 infantry. Interestingly, in his account of the siege of Hatra in 199 AD, Cassius Dio mentions a body of 550 European men. That would make a legion of 5,500 infantry.
Returning to Vegetius, cohort 12 of 500 infantry, when in camp is allocated to the first cohort, thereby increasing cohort one to 1,050 infantry. So, to arrive at 1,105 men in cohort one, Vegetius has incorrectly added the 500 infantry of cohort 12 to the original 600 infantry of cohort one in the 10-cohort system, giving Vegetius a total of 1,100 infantry and five officers (centurions). Here Vegetius has also made a mistake about the distribution of the centurions.
Nathan wrote:
However, his cavalry components do not match up: neither 66 troopers for the normal cohort or 132 for the first cohort are divisible by the number of centuries!
To arrive at the figure of 132 cavalry for the first cohort, Vegetius has erroneously allocated an additional 66 cavalrymen to the 12th cohort, thereby increasing the first cohort from 66 cavalry to 132 cavalry. This means the 660-cavalry increased to 726 cavalry. In actuality, the number of cavalry with officers was 660 men (600 cavalrymen and 60 decurions), organised into 20 squadrons each of 33 men (30 cavalrymen and three decurions).
Lydus also mentions that a 6,000-man legion also had the same number of horsemen (6,000 cavalry). Isidore claims a 6,000-man legion had 200 squadrons of cavalry. Well, you should be able to work out how Isidore arrived at 200 cavalry squadrons, and it has nothing to do with a copyist error, it is a mathematical mistake.
But again we have the problem that the full number does not divide by the number of centuries, which the other estimates from earlier history do - Josephus's 120 legion cavalry give us 2 horsemen per century in the legion. Vegetius (II.6) gives 66 horsemen per cohort, and 132 in the first cohort. But 275 Veredarii cannot be divided by either ten (my version) or twenty (your version) centuries.
First mistake is not to count the number of officers for the cavalry when dividing by the number of centuries in a legion.
Nathan wrote:
Milner's note on p.36 has Vegetius 'artificially conceive' the size of the cavalry component by adding two 32-man turmae and two decurions. So the original turma would presumably be 33 men, including decurion. Whether this has any grounding in fact is another matter!
A 33-man cavalry squadron works for me.
Nathan wrote:
EDIT - looking more into the mess of the Vegetian 'antique legion' system, it appears that he is dividing each of his cohorts into 5 centuries - giving 111 men per century in a normal cohort and 221 in the first cohort; both figures include the centurion.
I love Vegetius. His 6,000-infantry legion is historical. Academia has failed to understand the many military doctrines of the Roman army. Vegetius’ mistakes have come about due to Vegetius getting confused about the billeting arrangement of the legion, when in camp. And this is quite easy to do. The fact that no academic has recognised these military doctrines for the last 400 years proves this. And to prove my point, I will share some of my research, which will most likely be plagiarised in one form or another.
When in camp, the 10 cohorts of 600 infantry in a 6,000-infantry legion are rearranged into 12 cohorts each of 500 infantry. Isidore states the 6,000-man legion has 60 centuries, 30 maniples and 12 cohorts. Oh, cried academia, Isidore does not know what he is talking about, a legion does not have 12 cohorts.
Oh yes it does! When in camp, cohort 11 is distributed amongst the 10 cohorts, thereby allocating each cohort 50 infantry, bringing the total of cohorts 1to 10 to 550 infantry per cohort, organised into five centuries each of 110 infantry. Interestingly, in his account of the siege of Hatra in 199 AD, Cassius Dio mentions a body of 550 European men. That would make a legion of 5,500 infantry.
Returning to Vegetius, cohort 12 of 500 infantry, when in camp is allocated to the first cohort, thereby increasing cohort one to 1,050 infantry. So, to arrive at 1,105 men in cohort one, Vegetius has incorrectly added the 500 infantry of cohort 12 to the original 600 infantry of cohort one in the 10-cohort system, giving Vegetius a total of 1,100 infantry and five officers (centurions). Here Vegetius has also made a mistake about the distribution of the centurions.
Nathan wrote:
However, his cavalry components do not match up: neither 66 troopers for the normal cohort or 132 for the first cohort are divisible by the number of centuries!
To arrive at the figure of 132 cavalry for the first cohort, Vegetius has erroneously allocated an additional 66 cavalrymen to the 12th cohort, thereby increasing the first cohort from 66 cavalry to 132 cavalry. This means the 660-cavalry increased to 726 cavalry. In actuality, the number of cavalry with officers was 660 men (600 cavalrymen and 60 decurions), organised into 20 squadrons each of 33 men (30 cavalrymen and three decurions).
Lydus also mentions that a 6,000-man legion also had the same number of horsemen (6,000 cavalry). Isidore claims a 6,000-man legion had 200 squadrons of cavalry. Well, you should be able to work out how Isidore arrived at 200 cavalry squadrons, and it has nothing to do with a copyist error, it is a mathematical mistake.
