Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Those coupling-sleeves again...
#4
(07-30-2019, 06:50 AM)Crispianus Wrote:
(07-30-2019, 01:29 AM)Condottiero Magno Wrote: Just received my copy of Ancient Warfare XIII.1 and what do I see in the background? Epirote phalangites wielding sarrisae with coupling-sleeves... Angry Matthew's An Invincible Beast had 'em, but I could ignore the specific chapter, as it's a decent work, while Dahm's Macedonian Phalangite vs Persian Warrior: Alexander confronts the Achaemenids, 334–331 BC  lazily regurgitated it, like a pair of Hawkwood's dismounted men-at-arms wielding a single spear. Why is the coupling sleeve still perpetuated, despite no other examples and no mention of it in accounts?

I guess they just cannot imagine how else you could make such a long pike.... so it would seem logical, even if the evidence doesn't fit the logic.

Thought it worthwhile to check Theophrastus "Enquiry into plants" and low and behold...

The reference is to Cornelian Cherry, Cornus mas, European Cornel (apparantly this can grow up to 12m tall) :

"The height of the male tree is at most 12 cubits, the length of the longest macedonian spear"

I have no idea if this is true, that the longest spear is 12 cubits or about 18ft but at least its contemporary, and if so would suggest you could make the Sarissa from one piece with no need for any join.

Wink

Sekunda quoted Theophrastus in his Macedonian Armies after Alexander 323–168 BC , but said ash was preferred due to its light weight, strength and flexibility: a 15ft cornel wood shaft, without metal parts, would weigh 4kg, nearly double the weight of an ash shaft. I think the majority of the coupling sleeve crowd have accepted that trees can grow to such lengths, so they changed the subject to the benefits of having a two piece pike. Rolleyes I've quoted Matthews on another thread, concerning the tactical use and logistical benefits of the coupling link, but there are no other surviving examples nor any contemporary mention of this Macedonian ingenuity.

(07-30-2019, 10:50 PM)Dan Howard Wrote: They had no trouble making pikes up to 25 feet long in the Middle Ages. Why not in earlier times?
Laziness...

I barely know Italian, but with the help of Google translator, the passage concerning Hawkwood's tactics, it clearly said the dismounted men-at-arms wielded their lances two handed, like hunting boars, not two men holding a single shaft. Probably due to Charles Oman, the mistranslation has been accepted without question. The same applies to sarissae, due to dubious reconstructions, based on a single find. The tube could've been the forerunner of a cup and ball game. Big Grin
aka T*O*N*G*A*R
Reply


Messages In This Thread
RE: Those coupling-sleeves again... - by Condottiero Magno - 07-31-2019, 12:17 AM
RE: Those coupling-sleeves again... - by Paralus - 11-19-2019, 02:37 AM
RE: Those coupling-sleeves again... - by Paralus - 11-29-2019, 10:39 PM
RE: Those coupling-sleeves again... - by Dave G - 11-30-2019, 10:28 AM
RE: Those coupling-sleeves again... - by Paralus - 12-02-2019, 01:58 AM
RE: Those coupling-sleeves again... - by Creon01 - 09-27-2022, 02:35 PM

Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Sarissa \'Coupling Sleeve\' rocktupac 28 8,704 09-25-2010, 05:54 PM
Last Post: hoplite14gr

Forum Jump: