06-24-2019, 06:33 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2019, 06:48 AM by Sean Manning.)
Oh dear, there are reasons why I keep Twitter at sarisa's length ...
I have now listened to Ward-Perkins' talk, and it sounds pretty good; the biggest thing I would have expected him to cover is the bioarchaeological evidence that people were healthier in the 5th-8th century than the 3rd-4th.
He also does not have enough to say about the evidence for just how horrible the Imperium was; admitting "there were also slaves" (but post-imperial kingdoms had slaves too, so there!) at 48:30 is not really sufficient. The Babylonian Talmud is loaded with material, and so are the church fathers. He talks about the lack of independence movements, but aren't there signs of massive movement away from the towns and villas into remote areas in Gaul and so on? Those ˁapiru miao Baguadae folks? If you can't get out because the limes are guarded by soldiers, you drop out.
To me, its obvious that complex society collapsed in the 5th century (especially the kind of civilization with high-tech pottery and monolithic pillars paid for by collecting 2 drachmas a year from desperately poor people whose ancestors 400 years ago rebelled), but his talk does not have much to say about whether that is a bad thing and whether the systems failure was the result of nasty ignorant invaders or of Roman aristocrats who were more interested in bullying their neighbours than keeping civilization running. He tells us that it was the barbarians wot did it, but in the talk he makes exactly 0 arguments for this.
I have now listened to Ward-Perkins' talk, and it sounds pretty good; the biggest thing I would have expected him to cover is the bioarchaeological evidence that people were healthier in the 5th-8th century than the 3rd-4th.
He also does not have enough to say about the evidence for just how horrible the Imperium was; admitting "there were also slaves" (but post-imperial kingdoms had slaves too, so there!) at 48:30 is not really sufficient. The Babylonian Talmud is loaded with material, and so are the church fathers. He talks about the lack of independence movements, but aren't there signs of massive movement away from the towns and villas into remote areas in Gaul and so on? Those ˁapiru miao Baguadae folks? If you can't get out because the limes are guarded by soldiers, you drop out.
To me, its obvious that complex society collapsed in the 5th century (especially the kind of civilization with high-tech pottery and monolithic pillars paid for by collecting 2 drachmas a year from desperately poor people whose ancestors 400 years ago rebelled), but his talk does not have much to say about whether that is a bad thing and whether the systems failure was the result of nasty ignorant invaders or of Roman aristocrats who were more interested in bullying their neighbours than keeping civilization running. He tells us that it was the barbarians wot did it, but in the talk he makes exactly 0 arguments for this.
Nullis in verba
I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
