Number of legions at Zama

[Mark Hygate]

Hi Mark.
You must be reading a different Polybius Book 6.20.8/9.  It is clear to me, that Polybius is only talking about Velites, Hastati, Princeps and Triari, ie actual infantry and not non combatants.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Ro...us/6*.html

"When they have chosen the number determined on — that is when the strength of each legion is brought up to four thousand two hundred, or in times of exceptional danger to five thousand — the old system was to choose the cavalry after the four thousand two hundred infantry, but they now choose them first, the censor selecting them according to their wealth; and three hundred are assigned to each legion."

Book 6.21.9 does not state 4000 more men, but if the legion is greater than 4000:

"They divide them so that the senior men known as triarii number six hundred, the principes twelve hundred, the hastati twelve hundred, the rest, consisting of the youngest, being velites. If the legion consists of more than four thousand men, they divide accordingly, except as regards the triarii, the number of whom is always the same."

Hi Nick,




Yes, I am using a different translation normally, although I have used the one you linked before, but now have to hand a real copy of Robin Waterfield's of 2010.  It's certainly a more literary translation and therefore easier to read, but I certainly hope not inaccurate.  Having just checked our bits, certainly the important detail is the same.




Just for this post, therefore, I'd like to start with only the last paragraph you quoted.  Firstly, however, I am completely sure I didn't suggest 4000 more men.




The first sentence of your quote details the 600+1200+1200+"the rest".  The next sentence starts off by implicitly suggesting that the numbers just mentioned add up to 4000.  Apart from any other reason that's one that very strongly suggests that the Velites number 1000.




This is also why, therefore, given that the 4200 number is clearly stated, I am sure the 180 are 95% of the 'missing' 200.  I am also fairly convinced, simply by omission because the other numbers are always detailed, that Polybius himself doesn't know how many Velites there are!  He may well have gotten his detail from his source(s) just as we see it written, but then realised he never got the actual Velite numbers and thus didn't state them.




So, can I convince you of the 1000 number?