03-09-2002, 12:41 PM
I really enjoy that discussion<br>
Some thoughts in bulk:<br>
"Volunteers were not forthcoming, and even if they were sufficiently numerous, they had not the same bravery and discipline, as it is chiefly the needy and the homeless who adopt by their own choice a soldier's life." (This is from Tacitus and refers to Tiberius' reign). Given the description by the same Tacitus of the living conditions in the german legions on the eve of the famous mutiny at the beginning of Tiberius' reign, and given the disastrous results of the whole german venture, it may be understandable that "volunteers were not forthcoming" at that time.<br>
Also: "the needy and homeless" were very numerous then, although they certainly wouldn't make good soldiers at once. "Volunteers were not forthcoming" could also mean that, normally, they should.<br>
Of course the situation changed dramatically as time went by. The story of the saint who refused to accept the military mark (it seems it was some sort of dog tag then..) is from a much later period when the only ones to volunteer --sometimes quite vigorously-- were the german tribesmen.<br>
Actually it's the time frame we use that bothers me: 1st century, second quarter of the third century and so on. I think it would help clarity to divide the period, not in centuries, but according to the reigns of Emperors.<br>
The situation was also obviously very different between legions which may or may not be established near big population centers like it was often the case for the oriental legions. It was certainly more appealing to sign up for a legion stationed for example in Alexandria, than for a german a danubian or a british one.<br>
The question of agricultural surpluses and agricultural manpower could start another discussion..E EM<br>
Recent finds made possible by computer and radar technology have revealed for instance a density of villas in Gaul that is far higher than thought before. It could mean they had surpluses. Conversely it could mean they needed that many villas --and thus that many laborers-- to be able to feed the local population but not generate surpluses...<br>
Could we conclude that the situation was similar to the US Army of the post-WWII period, e.g. a volunteers army supplemented by a draft system?<br>
Or a drafted army supplemented by volunteers? <p></p><i></i>
Some thoughts in bulk:<br>
"Volunteers were not forthcoming, and even if they were sufficiently numerous, they had not the same bravery and discipline, as it is chiefly the needy and the homeless who adopt by their own choice a soldier's life." (This is from Tacitus and refers to Tiberius' reign). Given the description by the same Tacitus of the living conditions in the german legions on the eve of the famous mutiny at the beginning of Tiberius' reign, and given the disastrous results of the whole german venture, it may be understandable that "volunteers were not forthcoming" at that time.<br>
Also: "the needy and homeless" were very numerous then, although they certainly wouldn't make good soldiers at once. "Volunteers were not forthcoming" could also mean that, normally, they should.<br>
Of course the situation changed dramatically as time went by. The story of the saint who refused to accept the military mark (it seems it was some sort of dog tag then..) is from a much later period when the only ones to volunteer --sometimes quite vigorously-- were the german tribesmen.<br>
Actually it's the time frame we use that bothers me: 1st century, second quarter of the third century and so on. I think it would help clarity to divide the period, not in centuries, but according to the reigns of Emperors.<br>
The situation was also obviously very different between legions which may or may not be established near big population centers like it was often the case for the oriental legions. It was certainly more appealing to sign up for a legion stationed for example in Alexandria, than for a german a danubian or a british one.<br>
The question of agricultural surpluses and agricultural manpower could start another discussion..E EM<br>
Recent finds made possible by computer and radar technology have revealed for instance a density of villas in Gaul that is far higher than thought before. It could mean they had surpluses. Conversely it could mean they needed that many villas --and thus that many laborers-- to be able to feed the local population but not generate surpluses...<br>
Could we conclude that the situation was similar to the US Army of the post-WWII period, e.g. a volunteers army supplemented by a draft system?<br>
Or a drafted army supplemented by volunteers? <p></p><i></i>
