08-25-2003, 01:46 PM
Castor and Pollux, not this one again! It's as bad as the Roman train tracks one...<br>
<br>
The classic Roman toga was changing dramatically in the 3rd century AD, and seems to have gone out entirely or mutated into something else about the 4th or 5th century. At that time, the various Caledonians, Picts, and Scoti up north were wearing their own variations on tunics, probably trousers, and big cloaks, just like the rest of the planet.<br>
<br>
In medieval Scotland, the traditional costume had become the leine and brat, the former being a long-sleeved shirt or tunic (apparently linen, often yellow), the latter being a woolen cloak, usually fuzzy and fringed. At some point in the late middle ages or Renaissance (quite possibly earlier), the brat began to be made of tartan or plaid fabric--the terminology becomes tangled because there were no "clan tartans" yet, and "plaid" was apparently a Gaelic word for "blanket"! The brat grew bigger, and sometime about 1600 folks took to belting it around the waist, yielding the "belted plaid" or "great kilt", which could be 5 or 6 yards long. It was worn by men (knee-length) and women (ankle-length), the part above the belt being high enough to drape over the head in bad weather, or pin together over the left shoulder and under the right arm. Then comes the big step, chopping off the top part of the thing so that only the pleated, belted skirt is left, and oddly enough this is attributed to an Englishman who lived about 1725. (Foundryman, I believe, wanting to keep the voluminous parts out of the furnaces, etc.) (No, I don't know why the heck he wasn't wearing trousers and a leather apron!!)<br>
<br>
Bottom line, NO, there is absolutely no link between kilt and toga!!<br>
<br>
As an interesting sidenote, the traditional Irish saffron yellow kilt got it's start with the medieval leine and brat, too. Early Irish and Scottish clothing was very similar, not surprising since the Scoti are believed to have come from Ireland. But when the brat started taking over the scene in Scotland, in Ireland it was the leine that grew, becoming very full with large bell sleeves, and traditionally saffron-colored. Apparently the top of it became contained or covered or removed, while the part below the belt remained to become the Irish kilt.<br>
<br>
So Richard, go back to the Tourist Bureau and give them a good drubbing!<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
<br>
Quintus/Matthew, The Fashion Plate <p></p><i></i>
<br>
The classic Roman toga was changing dramatically in the 3rd century AD, and seems to have gone out entirely or mutated into something else about the 4th or 5th century. At that time, the various Caledonians, Picts, and Scoti up north were wearing their own variations on tunics, probably trousers, and big cloaks, just like the rest of the planet.<br>
<br>
In medieval Scotland, the traditional costume had become the leine and brat, the former being a long-sleeved shirt or tunic (apparently linen, often yellow), the latter being a woolen cloak, usually fuzzy and fringed. At some point in the late middle ages or Renaissance (quite possibly earlier), the brat began to be made of tartan or plaid fabric--the terminology becomes tangled because there were no "clan tartans" yet, and "plaid" was apparently a Gaelic word for "blanket"! The brat grew bigger, and sometime about 1600 folks took to belting it around the waist, yielding the "belted plaid" or "great kilt", which could be 5 or 6 yards long. It was worn by men (knee-length) and women (ankle-length), the part above the belt being high enough to drape over the head in bad weather, or pin together over the left shoulder and under the right arm. Then comes the big step, chopping off the top part of the thing so that only the pleated, belted skirt is left, and oddly enough this is attributed to an Englishman who lived about 1725. (Foundryman, I believe, wanting to keep the voluminous parts out of the furnaces, etc.) (No, I don't know why the heck he wasn't wearing trousers and a leather apron!!)<br>
<br>
Bottom line, NO, there is absolutely no link between kilt and toga!!<br>
<br>
As an interesting sidenote, the traditional Irish saffron yellow kilt got it's start with the medieval leine and brat, too. Early Irish and Scottish clothing was very similar, not surprising since the Scoti are believed to have come from Ireland. But when the brat started taking over the scene in Scotland, in Ireland it was the leine that grew, becoming very full with large bell sleeves, and traditionally saffron-colored. Apparently the top of it became contained or covered or removed, while the part below the belt remained to become the Irish kilt.<br>
<br>
So Richard, go back to the Tourist Bureau and give them a good drubbing!<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
<br>
Quintus/Matthew, The Fashion Plate <p></p><i></i>
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
