Othismos: Classical vs Crowd Theory Othismos

[PMBardunias]

The re-enactors don’t even make an attempt to defend themselves with their weapons... there is no way that you would just let someone run into you like that.

Yet we know that hoplites found themselves at times shield to shield, so they surely did "allow" their foes to close to that distance. How exactly it occurred and how often is an opened question.

You just cannot fight with someone pushing you from behind, especially when you are trying to use an 8 foot spear!

Perhaps more importantly you cannot strike at a man you are shield to shield with using at 8' dory with a 5' reach in any stance. Thus othismos was a time for swords for the front rank...and fists and teeth. The video does show quite clearly though that men can use "weapons", their batons and even those pelta-sized shields, with men pressing up against their backs.

I would also argue that the 'T' stance is ideal for using a spear. You can bear the weight of your shield across your arm and shoulder and still be able to move it to deflect blows. Your spear arm is unrestricted, and being unprotected, it is furthest away from your opponent. Most of the force against you would be onto your shield, so the side stability is not much of an issue. I do think that Hoplites would change stance as the situation dictated as you have noted.

I would say two things and I mean them with complete respect. Be sure you are in a side-on stance, not a 3/4, and try it with a broom handle or something. Make sure your feet and hips are in a straight line perpendicular to the foe. My guess is that you will find yourself moving to a 3/4 stance because the full side-on greatly limits the range through which you can torque your torso, thus the power of your thrust and more importantly your reach with the weapon. Reach is very important in a spear-fight. Watch what happens to your feet when you strike hard, your back foot will surely want to move out of line to the right as your hips try to tilt forward. After the first strike you are in 3/4, which is probably the best compromise between protection and range of motion for striking.

If you have a few ranks behind you pushing, what happens if you lose your footing or is killed? Does the whole column of men fall on their faces?

This is a common misconception because crowds like this are not something we are used to. Its similar to the often espoused position that a charging file will trip over itself if it tries to pull up short (I have yet to crash into the cars in front of me when an unseen light ahead turns red). At this density there is nowhere to fall at peak pressure. Your corpse it held standing as we are told happened at Adrianople. If the pressure reduces enough for the man to fall, the man behind simply leans over the narrow gap created to meet the enemy who is doing the same from the other side until you hit the ground and he steps over, or on, your supine form. If there were for some reason enough room for you to fall, lets say that your foe does not move forward, then you simply take a step forward and the pressure evaporates. Because it derives from leaning, any space immediately removes the intense pressure. If there is any key to understanding this it is that the crowd cannot form unless it is resisted and the converse is true, the forces evaporate if the crowd disperses. Thus every time one side gives way, the whole crowd loosens and repacks as the victors move forward. When one side breaks, the pressure reduces gradually, if quickly, as ranks peel off and the victors don't just fall like bowling pins. that sort of falling can happen with fast pushing wedges by the way rather than gradual crowd pushing.

If it interests you I will write my theory in full along with illustrations?

I am greatly interested in others opinions. Remember though, we are talking about full, all rank, othismos. Anything less would be a different model, though still welcome for discussion. Also, what I am writing is only about the othismos phase of battle- we probably agree in large part about doratismos. The fact that we can agree about doratismos, while an orthodox othismos advocate cannot, is a strength of my model.

Riots have some definite advantages as they have a lot of people pushing and striking, with little regard for the opponents' health.

I agree, you can't buy this level of live "reenactment", hell, they even have round shields. The amount of weapon-damage is easy to overrate, surely most hoplites spent the whole battle picking ineffectively at eachother or jostling with shields with bound up weapons. Once one side breaks the whole dynamic changes.