12-13-2009, 05:09 PM
czolem Ruben et al.,
pardonez moi for this long delay in answering your post, mea culpa.
firstly, I thank you Ruben for your kind remarks and pointing to broken chain of my reasoning, so to speak. With your remarks it does seem to flow more smoothly. Nikonorov I admire for his scholarship and the redrawn artifacts but the plates are what they are, a bit strange, yet they do contain useful information. As per Pazyryk the Altai rock drawings contain lots of sagaris action, and since they are the most direct evidence of sagaris in action by the nomads - blows to the head and shoulders etc (but not the only as the Achaemenid art shows sagaris being used ass well, in combat scenes) than I think we can somewhat safety infer they were used across the steppe in various forms i.e. shorter and longer, being the most useful mounted man weapon against armoured and unarmoured foe in hand to hand combat.
secondly, I reread this tread - and what I come to see from this reading is that the IV century BC Massagetan heavy mounted warrior might have had :
via Khumbuz-Tepe:
a bow slung from his belt or saddle, armoured leg protectors, horse flank armour, and perhaps armoured saddle
via Taraz:
high, single sheet collar, helmet, chest armour, and some sort of segmented hip and thighs armour that might have extended down his legs
via Chirik-Rabat:
iron, long sword, segmented arm and perhaps corselet armour, and carried a Saka style bow in bow case as evidenced by the iron arrow finds.
his corselet, wheather bone, horn or metal is a matter of choice?, can be similar to the ones reconstructed by Gorbunov
From elsewhere it can be deduced that he carried a longer lance or spear, horse whip and long handle sagaris . He perhaps carried a shorter sword or dagger strapped to his thigh.
Based on Pazyryk and other Siberian finds, from Scythian art but contrary to the later steppe practices, it can be deduced that he most likely wore a bashlyk cap/hat underneath his helmet.
In addition he might have carried his kantus hung on his shoulders before the battle and perpahs rolled behind him and thonged to his Saka ( horn pommel and cantle as found in Pazyryk or by the Chinese in the 'Uigurystan ') saddle.
What you think?
pardonez moi for this long delay in answering your post, mea culpa.
firstly, I thank you Ruben for your kind remarks and pointing to broken chain of my reasoning, so to speak. With your remarks it does seem to flow more smoothly. Nikonorov I admire for his scholarship and the redrawn artifacts but the plates are what they are, a bit strange, yet they do contain useful information. As per Pazyryk the Altai rock drawings contain lots of sagaris action, and since they are the most direct evidence of sagaris in action by the nomads - blows to the head and shoulders etc (but not the only as the Achaemenid art shows sagaris being used ass well, in combat scenes) than I think we can somewhat safety infer they were used across the steppe in various forms i.e. shorter and longer, being the most useful mounted man weapon against armoured and unarmoured foe in hand to hand combat.
secondly, I reread this tread - and what I come to see from this reading is that the IV century BC Massagetan heavy mounted warrior might have had :
via Khumbuz-Tepe:
a bow slung from his belt or saddle, armoured leg protectors, horse flank armour, and perhaps armoured saddle
via Taraz:
high, single sheet collar, helmet, chest armour, and some sort of segmented hip and thighs armour that might have extended down his legs
via Chirik-Rabat:
iron, long sword, segmented arm and perhaps corselet armour, and carried a Saka style bow in bow case as evidenced by the iron arrow finds.
his corselet, wheather bone, horn or metal is a matter of choice?, can be similar to the ones reconstructed by Gorbunov
From elsewhere it can be deduced that he carried a longer lance or spear, horse whip and long handle sagaris . He perhaps carried a shorter sword or dagger strapped to his thigh.
Based on Pazyryk and other Siberian finds, from Scythian art but contrary to the later steppe practices, it can be deduced that he most likely wore a bashlyk cap/hat underneath his helmet.
In addition he might have carried his kantus hung on his shoulders before the battle and perpahs rolled behind him and thonged to his Saka ( horn pommel and cantle as found in Pazyryk or by the Chinese in the 'Uigurystan ') saddle.
What you think?
bachmat66 (Dariusz T. Wielec)
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