Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Macedonian Soldier Stele
#31
Paralus wrote:
Quote:The image, in my copy, does not facilitate any ready identification. If it is, in fact, an arm Nikanor seems to be reaching forward and downwards with his left hand and he is rotated slightly to his right.
...indeed this was a standard pose from the days of the Panathenaic procession depicted on the Parthenon, and repeated endlessly thereafter - horse 'gathered', rider deep-seated, legs angled forward, body rotated toward the observer ( occasionally, for variation, because a number of horsemen are shown on the Parthenon frieze, the body is rotated away from the viewer, or in profile), head in profile. The right arm is often raised to throw a javelin or downward thrust a spear.....mostly the riders point left,( all on the Parthenon frieze) but sometimes right on copies of the pose on funeral stele and the like ( mirror image). The rear hand almost always 'disappears' behind the horses neck ( it saves the sculptor having to do another difficult and tricky hand ! )


I don't think "letter styles" is a terribly accurate way of dating a stele ( which is the authors method), and since the carving is inevitably worn, I don't think one can be positive that a long-sleeved tunic is worn. To me that line between rider and horses neck could just as easily be a short-sleeved tunic and arm. The style of the stele is right for any period from the Parthenon onward, unfortunately.The pose and style persisted into the second century ( see attached 3 C Alexandrine stele), ..... and so no guide to date- see attached for example - The Thessalian's left arm is all but worn away, but the bottom is just visible next to his right hand between rider and horses neck....This stele is dated c. 350-300 BC, the age of Philip and Alexander - note the Phrygian helmet.
The helmet on the stele in question here, with it's slight peak/brow, the forehead 'notch' and low comb looks to me like a well-known and common Antigonid type ( see attached - one of two helmets found at Melos), not known before around 275 BC, maybe 250 BC. The 'attic' helmets of Philip and Alexander's day all seem to have had high 'Phrygian' combs ( see Alexander coins and the so-called 'Philip' iron helmet for example)....I would therefore tend to think a later date than the authors.

As to shield or no shield, shields are depicted being carried by cavalry from the second half of the fourth century in South Italy, in particular Tarentine and Lucanian horsemen. Nearchus, one of Alexander's admirals, also mentions some Indian cavalry carrying relatively small shields.It is therefore an outside possibility that this figure carries a shield

However, Greek and Macedonian cavalry don't seem to have adopted shields until Pyrrhus' time, and the time of the Gallic invasion.( after 278 BC).They do not seem to have used 'aspides' but rather the celtic flat circular shield with spine, also apparently adopted in Italy from the celts.....

On balance of probability, I would suggest this stele shows a shieldless cavalryman, but I would disagree with the authors over it's dating, and place it (probably)after 275 BC, largely because of the helmet.....and of course given the relative crudity of the carving, one can interpret it a number of ways..... :? ?
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
Reply


Messages In This Thread
Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Johnny Shumate - 10-17-2009, 03:43 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Archelaos - 10-17-2009, 04:28 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Johnny Shumate - 10-17-2009, 04:32 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 10-17-2009, 05:45 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Johnny Shumate - 10-17-2009, 06:15 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 10-17-2009, 07:53 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 10-17-2009, 08:13 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 10-17-2009, 08:44 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 10-17-2009, 09:00 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 10-17-2009, 09:21 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 10-17-2009, 09:26 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 10-17-2009, 10:21 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 10-17-2009, 11:06 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 10-17-2009, 11:17 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 10-17-2009, 11:30 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 10-17-2009, 11:46 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 10-19-2009, 12:23 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by PMBardunias - 10-19-2009, 02:39 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Fco Matias Bueno - 12-13-2009, 01:39 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-13-2009, 04:42 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-13-2009, 07:51 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-13-2009, 08:14 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-13-2009, 05:22 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-13-2009, 09:17 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-14-2009, 12:04 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-14-2009, 12:11 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-14-2009, 01:46 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-14-2009, 02:43 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-14-2009, 04:05 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-14-2009, 05:49 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Ghostmojo - 12-14-2009, 08:44 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-14-2009, 10:05 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-14-2009, 11:23 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Ghostmojo - 12-14-2009, 11:33 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-14-2009, 11:53 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-15-2009, 02:17 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-15-2009, 03:08 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-15-2009, 03:43 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-15-2009, 03:54 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-15-2009, 04:17 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-15-2009, 05:56 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-15-2009, 06:12 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-15-2009, 06:38 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-15-2009, 06:45 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-15-2009, 06:53 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-15-2009, 10:58 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-16-2009, 06:16 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-16-2009, 06:36 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-16-2009, 06:54 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-16-2009, 01:49 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-16-2009, 04:00 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-16-2009, 04:53 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-16-2009, 11:23 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-17-2009, 12:37 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-17-2009, 01:19 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-17-2009, 02:15 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-17-2009, 03:12 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-17-2009, 05:51 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-17-2009, 06:33 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-17-2009, 09:05 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-17-2009, 06:41 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-18-2009, 01:24 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-18-2009, 02:51 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-18-2009, 05:34 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-18-2009, 07:17 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by John Conyard - 12-18-2009, 06:22 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-18-2009, 07:01 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-18-2009, 10:57 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-19-2009, 08:01 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-19-2009, 08:46 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by John Conyard - 12-19-2009, 11:19 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-19-2009, 11:32 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-21-2009, 02:49 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-21-2009, 04:51 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-21-2009, 07:31 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-21-2009, 09:55 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by D B Campbell - 12-21-2009, 01:34 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by PMBardunias - 12-21-2009, 07:43 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-21-2009, 10:35 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-22-2009, 12:42 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-22-2009, 01:23 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-22-2009, 01:49 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-22-2009, 02:32 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-22-2009, 07:44 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-22-2009, 08:11 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-22-2009, 09:59 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-22-2009, 11:04 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-22-2009, 12:31 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-22-2009, 12:52 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-22-2009, 01:21 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-22-2009, 10:15 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-23-2009, 10:33 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by John Conyard - 12-24-2009, 08:14 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-28-2009, 07:12 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-28-2009, 02:19 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-28-2009, 04:52 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-28-2009, 07:43 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-29-2009, 08:34 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by John Conyard - 12-29-2009, 08:44 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paullus Scipio - 12-29-2009, 08:52 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by MeinPanzer - 12-29-2009, 07:47 PM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by Paralus - 12-31-2009, 07:31 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by John Conyard - 01-02-2010, 11:07 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by keravnos - 01-23-2010, 07:44 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by John Conyard - 01-23-2010, 10:03 AM
Re: Macedonian Soldier Stele - by keravnos - 01-23-2010, 11:54 AM

Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Macedonian soldier helm ? Uther 11 4,030 07-04-2008, 09:11 PM
Last Post: Kallimachos

Forum Jump: