07-10-2009, 07:05 PM
Hi,
well, of course Polybius certainly doesn't mention Crassus' defeat ;-) )
But both Plutarch and Cassius Dio mention that Parthian arrows at Carrhae penetrated armour. Here are the passages:
Plut. Crassus 24.
??????? ?? ???? ?????? ????????? ???????????, ????? ??? ?? ???? ????????, ???? ??????? ?????????? ??????????, ???? ??????????? ????? ????????? ???? ????????, ??? ???????? ???????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ?????, ???? ?? ????????? ??? ??? ?????? ????????? ?????? ????????? ??? ??????? ???????????.
And when Crassus ordered his light-armed troops to make a charge, they did not advance far, but encountering a multitude of arrows, abandoned their undertaking and ran back for shelter among the men-at?arms, among whom they caused the beginning of disorder and fear, for these now saw the velocity and force of the arrows, which fractured armour, and tore their way through every covering alike, whether hard or soft. (Translation taken from Lacus Curtius)
Cass. Dio XL. 22.
?? ?? ???? ??? ?????, ??? ?????????? ??? ?????? ??????????, ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ?????????, ??????? ?? ????????? ?????????· ???? ?' ???????? ????????, ?? ?? ??? ???? ????????? ???? ??????????, ??? ???? ??? ??????, ?? ?? ???? ???? ???, ??? ??? ??? ????? ????????· ??? ?? ?????????? ????? ????????, ??? ?????????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????????? ?????????· ???? ?? ? ??? ??????? ??????????, ? ??? ??????? ????????, ????? ???????? ???? ??' ?????? ????????.
The missiles falling thick upon them from all sides at once struck down many by a mortal blow, rendered many useless for battle, and caused distress to all. They flew into their eyes and pierced their hands and all the other parts of their body and, penetrating their armour, deprived them of their protection and compelled them to expose themselves to each new missile. (translation taken from Lacus Curtius)
See especially these:
???? ?? ????????? ??? ??? ?????? ????????? ?????? ????????? ??? ??????? ???????????
and
??? ??? ??? ????? ????????· ??? ?? ?????????? ????? ????????
„hoplon“ may mean „armour“ or „large shield“. Someone with better knowledge of Greek should analyse these texts, but they imply that the arrows can pierce armour.
While I admit that arrow can go through mail armour or shield sometimes I don't believe that it was common for arrows to pierce armour and kill or seriously wound a man behind it and I surely don't believe that that arrow can go through shield and then also through armour.
I think that exactly battle of Carrhae is quite a good example of ineffectiveness of Parthian arrows against legionaries equipped with shields and mail armour. The Parthians were shooting on the legionaries for a very long time and under the best circumstances one could ever imagine (An almost immobile and very dense formation, where – with Plutarch's words – every arrow found it's man. The Romans had very few cavalry and light infantry and therefore couldn't effectively attack the Parthian cavalrymen, who could move freely at their will). In spite of this the Roman formation withstood this and was able to repel an attack of Parthian heavy cavalry at the end of the day. When the Romans left the battlefield at night, some 4000 wounded were left. The dead were surely less than this number and we must remember that some of them were victims of fighting at close quarters (not all deaths and wounds were caused by the archers!). When we take into account the circumstances and the numbers of Romans and Parthians, the casualties aren't very high.
Greetings
Alexandr
well, of course Polybius certainly doesn't mention Crassus' defeat ;-) )
But both Plutarch and Cassius Dio mention that Parthian arrows at Carrhae penetrated armour. Here are the passages:
Plut. Crassus 24.
??????? ?? ???? ?????? ????????? ???????????, ????? ??? ?? ???? ????????, ???? ??????? ?????????? ??????????, ???? ??????????? ????? ????????? ???? ????????, ??? ???????? ???????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ?????, ???? ?? ????????? ??? ??? ?????? ????????? ?????? ????????? ??? ??????? ???????????.
And when Crassus ordered his light-armed troops to make a charge, they did not advance far, but encountering a multitude of arrows, abandoned their undertaking and ran back for shelter among the men-at?arms, among whom they caused the beginning of disorder and fear, for these now saw the velocity and force of the arrows, which fractured armour, and tore their way through every covering alike, whether hard or soft. (Translation taken from Lacus Curtius)
Cass. Dio XL. 22.
?? ?? ???? ??? ?????, ??? ?????????? ??? ?????? ??????????, ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ?????????, ??????? ?? ????????? ?????????· ???? ?' ???????? ????????, ?? ?? ??? ???? ????????? ???? ??????????, ??? ???? ??? ??????, ?? ?? ???? ???? ???, ??? ??? ??? ????? ????????· ??? ?? ?????????? ????? ????????, ??? ?????????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????????? ?????????· ???? ?? ? ??? ??????? ??????????, ? ??? ??????? ????????, ????? ???????? ???? ??' ?????? ????????.
The missiles falling thick upon them from all sides at once struck down many by a mortal blow, rendered many useless for battle, and caused distress to all. They flew into their eyes and pierced their hands and all the other parts of their body and, penetrating their armour, deprived them of their protection and compelled them to expose themselves to each new missile. (translation taken from Lacus Curtius)
See especially these:
???? ?? ????????? ??? ??? ?????? ????????? ?????? ????????? ??? ??????? ???????????
and
??? ??? ??? ????? ????????· ??? ?? ?????????? ????? ????????
„hoplon“ may mean „armour“ or „large shield“. Someone with better knowledge of Greek should analyse these texts, but they imply that the arrows can pierce armour.
While I admit that arrow can go through mail armour or shield sometimes I don't believe that it was common for arrows to pierce armour and kill or seriously wound a man behind it and I surely don't believe that that arrow can go through shield and then also through armour.
I think that exactly battle of Carrhae is quite a good example of ineffectiveness of Parthian arrows against legionaries equipped with shields and mail armour. The Parthians were shooting on the legionaries for a very long time and under the best circumstances one could ever imagine (An almost immobile and very dense formation, where – with Plutarch's words – every arrow found it's man. The Romans had very few cavalry and light infantry and therefore couldn't effectively attack the Parthian cavalrymen, who could move freely at their will). In spite of this the Roman formation withstood this and was able to repel an attack of Parthian heavy cavalry at the end of the day. When the Romans left the battlefield at night, some 4000 wounded were left. The dead were surely less than this number and we must remember that some of them were victims of fighting at close quarters (not all deaths and wounds were caused by the archers!). When we take into account the circumstances and the numbers of Romans and Parthians, the casualties aren't very high.
Greetings
Alexandr
