Our new cheiroballista...

[Nerva]

Well, there's my current version of things, laid bare for the vultures to pick apart. It is merely my opinion and I invite others to tie the artifacts, texts, and iconography together as they wish using only logic, reason, and as few thready assumptions as needed. Duct tape and large hunks of metal that haven't been dug up in either text or earth are out of bounds. They will be taken away and you won't get them back until the bell rings :lol:

Come on now Clodivs, we're all friends again now :wink:

I agree with you that iron-framers must certainly have pre-dated their appearance on Trajan's Column.

I fully agree, but unfortunately we have no idea of when these machines were first introduced.

so the absence of tried-and-true wood-framers suggests that ferroballistae were sufficiently assimilated and/or provided such superior performance that wood-framers were not needed.

We cannot say this with any degree of certainty. The absence of a reference does not mean they did not exist or were not used.

The second and more direct source is Cassius Dio. In his description of a battle near the end of Trajan's First Dacian campaign he writes..."Trajan seized some fortified mountains and on them found the arms and the captured engines, as well as the standard which had been taken in the time of Fuscus." Dio p377

I have two problems with this. Firstly Dio is writing long after the events took place, 170 AD +, and I have to seriously question his specific accuracy. Secondly, Dio's use of the word 'engine' is inconsistent in a number of instances - I mean this in relation to the original Greek text.

Since the engines shown in posession of the Dacians on the column are iron-framers, that strongly supports the existence of ferroballistae in regular field use as far back as 87-88 AD.

I would take such illustrations with a pinch of salt. I think there is a lot of artistic license displayed on the column. Even if we accept the Dacians were in possession of Cheiro/Carroballista how do you come up with 87-88 AD?

Vale

Nerva