02-07-2008, 12:44 PM
I had the pleasure to read the thread just now the first time, together one post after the other. I don't see any real reason to view the described peltai as oval.
Symmetrical can mean round or perhaps oval or perhaps rectangular. Why has "oval" more probability? I didn't read any argument for this.
We have pictures of round and crescent shaped peltai. If one is described as symmetrical, I would opt for the round one meant.
On the other hand Paul McDonnell-Staff's (you should not have same first names, folks
) argument about the nonexisting pictorial evidence for oval Greek shields cannot be dismissed entirely. After 270 BC we have at least some pictures with Greeks with oval shields. I don't know any example from the first half of the 4th c. The picture posted by Stefanos shows imho aspides from an angle. If we speculate we should at least speculate from some data base even if it is very small.
The whole concept of the Iphicratic peltast (= light hoplite) is highly debatable. But if we take it as a fact why do we not see oval peltai on a broader base, given the alleged success, f.e. with the Macedons who seemed to take some ideas from Iphicrates. An oval shield has some advantages over a round one. Iphicrates shield experiment must have died out quickly only to be suddenly revived when the Greeks saw again oval shields in Celtic hands. Sounds not very convincing. I don't believe in oval peltai before the 3rd c. BC.
But all is speculation and every opinion is possible.
Edit: Not this topic, but..., mmh, do we have a source with Nepos with a reference to linen Greek cuirasses? It seems so. Strange, I first read Nepos a year or so ago and did not get the clue. :roll:
Symmetrical can mean round or perhaps oval or perhaps rectangular. Why has "oval" more probability? I didn't read any argument for this.
We have pictures of round and crescent shaped peltai. If one is described as symmetrical, I would opt for the round one meant.
On the other hand Paul McDonnell-Staff's (you should not have same first names, folks
) argument about the nonexisting pictorial evidence for oval Greek shields cannot be dismissed entirely. After 270 BC we have at least some pictures with Greeks with oval shields. I don't know any example from the first half of the 4th c. The picture posted by Stefanos shows imho aspides from an angle. If we speculate we should at least speculate from some data base even if it is very small.The whole concept of the Iphicratic peltast (= light hoplite) is highly debatable. But if we take it as a fact why do we not see oval peltai on a broader base, given the alleged success, f.e. with the Macedons who seemed to take some ideas from Iphicrates. An oval shield has some advantages over a round one. Iphicrates shield experiment must have died out quickly only to be suddenly revived when the Greeks saw again oval shields in Celtic hands. Sounds not very convincing. I don't believe in oval peltai before the 3rd c. BC.
But all is speculation and every opinion is possible.
Edit: Not this topic, but..., mmh, do we have a source with Nepos with a reference to linen Greek cuirasses? It seems so. Strange, I first read Nepos a year or so ago and did not get the clue. :roll:
Wolfgang Zeiler
