Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles
#65
Quote:
Aryaman2:26uwbxw4 Wrote:[Ok, I would like to hear what are your ideas on the subject, what do you think is a reasonable number for a field army based on logistics? and on what grounds?

I think we tend to view all such questions through the dark glass of a modern mind. Even using medieval or earlier records as a starting point seems to me to be likely to produce distortions. I think slaves and servants in the Persian army would have made a contribution as combatants as well as bearers; I think ancient warriors were accustomed to minimal home comforts when they were at home and therefore were able to cope with great hardships on campaign; I think their generals were quite at ease with the idea that their men might be half-starved and exhausted by the end of a campaign, as this was only to be expected; I think they were also happy to send unfit men into battle, as they were great believers in the theory of the big battalions (i.e., that God is on their side); I think that they were also ruthless in exploiting the territory through which they marched; I think that their need to garrison conquered territory would be much reduced, given the fact that they took the conquered nation's manpower with them on their further march; I think they would have rested the sick and injured in garrison roles, as every army does; I think the shock troops would have been kept in peak fighting trim, with special rations, at the expense of the "dory-fodder"; I think the Persians planned long and carefully before committing their Empire to the campaign and they prepared long-range advance depots, as well as using their naval superiority to re-supply from the sea ( "10-100 times cheaper"). My reasoning is based on Herodotos, whom I do not perceive as totally discredited, although I would still not accept his figures as necessarily 100% accurate.
We know that the Persians brought along many true non-combatants. Many Persians brought their wives and concubines in covered wagons (various references through Htd. books 7-9). Mardonius brought along a team of cooks, bakers, and table servants who survived Plataea to serve the Greeks on Mardonius' tablware (Hdt. 9.82). Many of the remoter imperial contingents, if Xerxes really did call a levy of the empre, were likely hostages as much as soldiers. Male servants might fight, but would be likely to be of little use due to poor training, motivation, and weaponry.

Soldiers who are starving will be little if any use in battle. You need strength to shoot a bow or wield spear and shield. If you were Xerxes King of Kings, would you go off to punish the Yauna Beyond the Sea with an army that would be skin and bones by the time it reached Athens? If you had, would the Athenians have let us forget it? Herodotus claims that many invaders starved on the way home, not that they reached Greece starving. Persian strategy emphasized intimidating the Greeks so that no dangerous coalition would form. Xerxes sent three spies who had been caught back to Greece after showing them around his camp (Hdt. 7.146)

There are plenty of nasty tasks that someone has to do in camp that keep servants busy. Grinding grain is slow and tiring, and you have to do it for hours every day. Gathering food from distant grainaries takes time and manpower as well. Shelter has to be erected, forage gathered for animals, clothing cleaned. Most of these are tasks that an Iranian peasant or Anatolian herder would not have to do at home- woman's work.

I think that there might have been somewhat over 100,000 people in the land half of Xerxes' expedition, and the fleet had over 100,000 (there were at least 600 triremes before losses). But I definitely think that 100,000 people is the right ballpark for an upper limit of the original land force. Depots across Anatolia, Thrace, and Macedon, and water transport by the fleet, are the only reason that 100,000 men or slightly more seems practical. My original range of 100-500,000 included the fleet in its upper figure, and the rowers and marines would have eaten much of the food transported by sea.
Nullis in verba

I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
Reply


Messages In This Thread
Re: Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles - by Anonymous - 10-17-2006, 09:50 AM
Persian Size - by Sean-Dogg - 10-19-2006, 04:33 AM
Re: Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles - by Anonymous - 10-22-2006, 07:00 PM
Re: Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles - by Anonymous - 10-23-2006, 06:20 PM
Re: Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles - by Anonymous - 10-25-2006, 10:35 AM
Re: Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles - by Anonymous - 10-25-2006, 04:30 PM
Re: Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles - by Sean Manning - 10-25-2006, 10:00 PM
Re: Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles - by Anonymous - 10-26-2006, 08:35 AM
Re: Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles - by Anonymous - 10-26-2006, 08:49 AM
Re: Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles - by Anonymous - 10-26-2006, 09:00 AM
Re: Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles - by Anonymous - 10-29-2006, 06:11 PM
Re: Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles - by Anonymous - 10-29-2006, 06:22 PM
Re: Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles - by Anonymous - 10-29-2006, 06:31 PM
Re: Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles - by Anonymous - 10-30-2006, 08:41 AM
Re: Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles - by Anonymous - 10-30-2006, 08:55 AM
Re: Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles - by Anonymous - 10-30-2006, 10:41 PM
Re: Persian Invasion of 480 BC - articles - by Anonymous - 11-25-2006, 09:24 AM

Forum Jump: