The Arian Controversy and the Council of Nicea

[Theodosius the Great]

If there wasn't any bickering until Constantine then what was the point of Nicaea?

Oh, it's no coincidence that the bickering started with Constantine. He was the catalyst by initiating the coalescence of the Christian communities across the Empire. Of course, everyone thought it was important to affirm orthodox Christianity. No doubt the councils which Constantine convened revealed for the first time some of the deviant beliefs held by certain Christian communities. It was only under Constantine that ecumenical councils were first held. So, the revelations from these meetings no doubt surprised many Christians and it was imperative that they get things straightened out now that what ever is decided in the councils will be enforced by the state.

I said earlier that there was little point in solidifying pagan religions

Yes and no. I believe you're talking about classical paganism. But classical paganism was long in decline and people in droves were abandoning it in favor of Eastern cults. Some pagan sects were seen as dangerous to the state. Diocletian did not single out Christians in his persecutions, he also targeted some of the newer pagan sects that had Persian origins. This occurred in Egypt because he was terrified that these pagans were sympathetic to their Persian co-coreligionists. So, pagans were at each others' throats during the late Empire. Diocletian tried to revive the old beliefs but the tide was turning toward more monotheistic religions and cults.

I don't think it was their disunity as much as their on-the-edge-of-society nature that posed the problem for Rome. By accepting Christianity, Constantine removed some of the religion's "edginess".

I'm not sure if you are addressing persecution of Christians or Christianity after it becomes the official religion of Rome. Which "problem" ?

True, Rome was suspicious of secretive clubs and cults. But by the III century the Christians were not in the shadows anymore. They had buildings that were churches and no longer used houses to worship inside.

Unless I misunderstood you, I think you might be juxtaposing facts from different periods when you mention Constantine's attempt at unity and Arian barbarians persecuting pagans and such.

Yes, I am. For two reasons : 1) I'm not sure what specific period you are addressing. And 2.) I'm trying to show that unity was a process and not a single event. However, I think the empire was majority Christian by the late IV century.

The army and peasants tend to be the most conservative elements in society both now and then. So, they were probably the last strongholds of paganism.

I'm enjoying this discussion and looking forward to your response.

As am I, Casmin. I slightly misunderstood what you were saying earlier.

Maybe you can bring me into the fold of being a true believer

I'm just pointing out what I think is evidence of an unprecedented, unseen level of unity. If your mind is open I'd be glad to try and persuade. If it's closed to persuasion then I'd still like to hear counter-points. Maybe I'll be persuaded. ':

Theo