07-09-2006, 08:47 AM
I can't see why on earth the Gladius is being compared to the Jian and the Spatha to the Dao as though they were obvious equivalents. It seems to me that the Jian, Gladius and Spatha all belong to the same family of swords with straight double edged blades and pointed tips of varying length, width, weight and design, whereas the Dao is more closely related to a Falchion or Seax (especially this latter, which, if Wikipedia is to be believed, is a word that corresponds exactly to Dao, being derived from a word for 'knife' and eventually used for single edged blades of all sizes, generally in combination with an adjective of some sort, such as 'lang' or 'hond'...)], being a single edged sword with a blade of varying length, width, design and curvature.
It's my understanding that with a curved blade the emphasis is on the cut, whilst a straight blade puts more emphasis on the thrust (given that it doesn't have a rounded tip), but is not better at thrusting than cutting. Rather, straight blades are better at thrusting than curved blades and curved blades are better at cutting than straight blades. To say that a straight blade is better suited to thrusting than cutting seems odd, would it not be more sensible to say that it is a compromise between the two?
On the subject of frontage for Romans, my reading of Polybius was that it was a frontage of six feet for each individual Republican Soldier and three feet for each member of the Macedonian Phalanx, which would make perfect sense for Polybius' one Roman to two Greeks / ten Spears. It all sounds a bit too neat to me, but not too implausible. Can anybody with access to the original Greek give the original measurements?
My Reference:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/ ... niple.html
As a sidenote on frontages, if Vegetius advised an individual frontage of three feet (as I read somewhere else on this forum, but am too lazy to check upon at the moment), did he have in mind the Gladius (in the sense of Short Sword, of course, not just Sword) or a longer blade? Or is he just thinking of Spears? If Vegetius has the longer Spatha in mind (the more common sword of the period?) when writing, it would imply that he regards it as both suited to thrusting and use in close order... Could just be more evidence for his lack of practical military experience, but interesting nonetheless, in my opinion... maybe I should start a thread for this...
Anyway, an interesting, if sometimes heated, discourse. I learned a lot about Han armies...
Matthew James Stanham
Quote: I said a gladius is better at thrusting than cutting.
It's my understanding that with a curved blade the emphasis is on the cut, whilst a straight blade puts more emphasis on the thrust (given that it doesn't have a rounded tip), but is not better at thrusting than cutting. Rather, straight blades are better at thrusting than curved blades and curved blades are better at cutting than straight blades. To say that a straight blade is better suited to thrusting than cutting seems odd, would it not be more sensible to say that it is a compromise between the two?
On the subject of frontage for Romans, my reading of Polybius was that it was a frontage of six feet for each individual Republican Soldier and three feet for each member of the Macedonian Phalanx, which would make perfect sense for Polybius' one Roman to two Greeks / ten Spears. It all sounds a bit too neat to me, but not too implausible. Can anybody with access to the original Greek give the original measurements?
My Reference:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/ ... niple.html
As a sidenote on frontages, if Vegetius advised an individual frontage of three feet (as I read somewhere else on this forum, but am too lazy to check upon at the moment), did he have in mind the Gladius (in the sense of Short Sword, of course, not just Sword) or a longer blade? Or is he just thinking of Spears? If Vegetius has the longer Spatha in mind (the more common sword of the period?) when writing, it would imply that he regards it as both suited to thrusting and use in close order... Could just be more evidence for his lack of practical military experience, but interesting nonetheless, in my opinion... maybe I should start a thread for this...
Anyway, an interesting, if sometimes heated, discourse. I learned a lot about Han armies...
Matthew James Stanham
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one\'s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.
Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)
Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)
