THE REAL ROMAN ARMY vrs. the renactments

[Matthew Amt]

actually i would love to be in one of those renactments, i couldnt tell u how much i would want to do that that would be really awesome just to wear that armor.

Oh, it is!!

but i thought catapults (onagers) could have been used on field battles
didnt the romans use flaming ammunition, like those terracotta bombs?

Smaller versions of the ballista, called catapultae or scorpiones, were used in field battles. They shot short heavy arrows. The big stone-throwers were mainly for sieges. I don't know if they ever shot fire-bombs--Greek fire was indeed used, though much later than the second century, and I thought it was generally squirted out of a pump like a flamethrower. The problem in Gladiator was that the Romans were shooting flaming arrows at guys in damp wool tunics, which is silly--regular arrows worked just fine. And their catapult fire-bombs set fire to a wet forest, creating a wall of flame which their own cavalry then had to ride through! Dumb...

what make up was used on the soldiers in gladiator besides fake blood?

Lots of mud.

but what about the shileds, didnt the ones in gladiator look more realistic? i mean the renactors shields looked so red, like paint red, and it gladiator it looks like leather and wood, what did u make ur shields out of ?

The shape and size of the shields in the movie was actually one of the few things they got right. They even had good brass rims, nice bosses, and the back bracing. BUT they were too dark, dirty, and dingy! Actual Roman shields that have been found by archeologists are brightly painted, and made the same general way we make ours today: wood covered with leather and/or fabric, and painted. We are even trying to use the same kinds of paints the Romans used, in many cases. And some of us have made leather covers for protecting our shields while not in use. That means that the Romans in Gladiator would have had bright clean shields at the start of the battle, since the covers would have kept all the mud off until then.

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/scutum.html
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/scucvr.html

ok so take one roman soldier from the gladiator movie, and tell me what is wrong, and not histrorically accurate with him? why is it not possible that the actual rome could have those kinds of soldiers.

Oh, boy, it's been years since I saw it, luckily I've forgotten most of it. Helmets: Should not have been dark/rusty (we covered that already!), neckguards way too big and "swoopy".

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/helmets.html

Armor: Seemed to be some kind of imitation lorica segmentata that was open at the sides, getting narrower in width from top to bottom, not at all like a real segmentata should have been.

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/lorica.html

We already discussed the shields, and I don't remember too many other details about the belts, footwear, etc., though I do recall seeing too many ragged tunic hems. And they all had big leather armguards tied to their forearms, which simply was not done in ancient times. The Praetorians were all in black, making them look like evil Darth Vaders or something, which is just silly. The officers all wore their armor to the after-battle feast, which was ridiculous--Commodus was wearing his to do paperwork!

do any of u have any reccomendations for movies that display a historcially accurate rome>?

A visually accurate portrayal of clothing and armor? None that I know of! Monty Python's "Life of Brian" is one of the best for capturing the spirit of the era. "Gladiator" actually had great sets. "I, Claudius" is fabulously done, though the costuming and armor in that is pretty typical Hollywood stuff, too.

ok this is what i think about ur renactment soldiers, they have the right equpiment (gladius pugio) but it well once again hard to explain, it doesn`t look like your helmets could have actully protected u , what i mean is in the gladiator, they put some clothe on the helmet so there head wont be touchiing bare metal, and they did this for comfort, and REAL protection,

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/helmint.jpg

That's my helmet, and the lining in the photo is literally rotting away from use. (I did replace it eventually!) Most reenactor equipment is actually better made and often thicker and heavier than the original gear used by the Romans. It will protect very well!

what i mean is your people dont look like they could be dead in a few hours in a battle. its hard to explaIN i guess i just mean that u dont look like a true disciplined roman, and well of course i wouldnt either , i would put on that armor and laugh, and smile and totally not act like a roman, etc. etc. etc. and its just that in the movies they kind of do act roman and serious.

I see what you mean, but hey, real soldiers laugh and smile, too! And real Romans enjoyed going to war and fighting, so I think many of them would look happy before action. Most of them were counting on making the *other* guys end up dead. You should read a few Roman comedy plays--they were definitely not serious folks all the time!

i would like to see like a clip of ur renacters marching or something

Here's a 500-K mpeg of us charging the fence at Roman Days a few years ago. Notice the kid in the white cap getting up and backing away! We seem to have made a decent impression on him.

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/charge02.MPG

so once again whats wrong with gladiator, did they display the city of rome right?

Looked great to me!

thanx for reading, u probably think this whole topic is stupid, but dont let this post, judge me right away.

Nah, you're all right, you just have a few strong preconceptions to work around. We're all here to learn!

Vale,

Matthew


PS: One thing I will pick at, gently--it's really hard for me to read the "text-messaging" abbreviations. If what you have to say is worth saying, take the time to write out the words, please! Thanks from an old fuddy-duddy.