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New Mel Gibson Christ movie
#34
Regarding tau crosses versus quatraform crosses, I have never been able to see how the tau cross could have been a more practical cross than the quatraform cross. To my mind there are only four methods of attaching the crossbar to the upright, namely: a) nailing, b) lashing, c) pegging with dowels and d) using a mortice and tenon.<br>
a) For a cross to have the necessary strength the timbers would have to have been reasonably stout (although not the railway sleepers we sometimes see depicted) and therefore if it were to be nailed together the nails would have to be quite log and several would be needed. Although the Romans were quite capable of making nails of this size, it seems to me that the nails would be quite expensive items to use when other alternatives were available. Nails of sufficient strength might also split the wood.<br>
b) Rope could have been used to lash the crossbar to the standing upright. Although it is possible to lash a bar onto the end of another bar, it is much more stable to lash crossed bars. During my time in scouts and as a scout instructor and then leader I witnessed heavy spars being securely lashed to uprights many times and always found that as long as the spar was supported by people at both ends, an experienced scout could lash it quickly and securely in place in about a minute. If the weight of the man attached to the crossbar was supported from underneath while the cross was being lashed together the lashing could be done very quickly and would have been strong enough to remain secure for a long time. If the two elements of the cross were notched slightly the strength of the join would be even greater. When the body was removed from the cross and the cross bar taken off, the rope could be wound up for re-use on future crosses.<br>
c) I do not think that pegging would be a practical option as the holes would have to be perfectly aligned on both cross members for the pegs to fit and there would have to be several for the joint to have enough strength. Add to that the probability that the crossbar might be re-used on a different cross next time and the possibility that the uprights and crossbars might not have been made in the same place and the pegging option tooks very shaky.<br>
d) A mortice and tenon joint would work well for a tau cross but would be impractical for a quatraform cross. The work of cutting mortices and tenons, although easy for an experienced woodworker, would surely take longer than lashing would take, and even if the crossbars were continually being re-used, I am sure the tenons on the uprights would get worn or broken over time, something which would not be relevant for a lashing.<br>
<br>
Therefore, I am of the opinion that the most likely from of cross would be a lashed together quatraform (or 'crusiform'), although I feel that a morticed tau would also be possible but less practical.<br>
<br>
<br>
I have yet to see the film (it doesn't open here until March) but as long as I can convince my slightly squeamish wife to go I will certainly be seeing it.<br>
<br>
Crispvs <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=crispvs>Crispvs</A> at: 2/26/04 10:56 pm<br></i>
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers.  :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

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Messages In This Thread
New Mel Gibson Christ movie - by John Maddox Roberts - 08-10-2003, 02:32 PM
Re: New Mel Gibson Christ movie - by Anonymous - 08-10-2003, 10:23 PM
Imperial Leather - by Nathan Ross - 08-11-2003, 09:40 AM
Re: Imperial Leather - by Jeroen Pelgrom - 08-11-2003, 10:31 AM
Other crucifixions... - by Nathan Ross - 08-12-2003, 04:19 PM
Re: New Mel Gibson Christ movie - by Anonymous - 08-12-2003, 06:21 PM
Re: New Mel Gibson Christ movie - by Sassanid - 08-13-2003, 12:04 AM
Crucifiction torture - by Robert Vermaat - 08-13-2003, 10:56 AM
Mel Gibson - by Anonymous - 08-13-2003, 11:23 AM
Re: Mel Gibson - by Frank Miranda - 08-14-2003, 05:01 AM
Nails and shields - by Anonymous - 08-15-2003, 12:46 AM
scuta - by John Maddox Roberts - 08-15-2003, 01:48 PM
John and Flavius - by Anonymous - 08-15-2003, 09:44 PM
Re: John and Flavius - by Gashford - 08-18-2003, 08:10 PM
Re: John and Flavius - by Anonymous - 12-03-2003, 09:00 PM
Re: John and Flavius - by Anonymous - 12-03-2003, 10:38 PM
Re: John and Flavius - by Anonymous - 02-13-2004, 03:15 PM
Re: John and Flavius - by Anonymous - 02-13-2004, 03:30 PM
Cross of Christ - by Anonymous - 02-16-2004, 01:36 PM
Re: John and Flavius - by Robert Vermaat - 02-16-2004, 05:30 PM
Re: John and Flavius - by Quintius Clavus - 02-17-2004, 01:02 AM
Re: John and Flavius - by John Maddox Roberts - 02-25-2004, 05:04 PM
greek instead of aramaic? - by Goffredo - 02-25-2004, 05:54 PM
Oh, yeah, Greek! - by Matthew Amt - 02-25-2004, 08:24 PM
Re: Oh, yeah, Greek! - by aitor iriarte - 02-26-2004, 05:42 AM
thanks guys - by Goffredo - 02-26-2004, 10:21 AM
Garrison of Judaea - by Anonymous - 02-26-2004, 12:48 PM
Re: Garrison of Judaea - by Anonymous - 02-26-2004, 05:29 PM
Re: Garrison of Judaea - by Anonymous - 02-26-2004, 07:38 PM
Re: Garrison of Judaea - by Crispvs - 02-26-2004, 09:53 PM
Re: John and Flavius - by Anonymous - 03-01-2004, 09:40 AM
Re: John and Flavius - by Anonymous - 03-01-2004, 09:25 PM
Re: New Mel Gibson Christ movie - by Anonymous - 03-14-2004, 06:57 PM
B/CE - by Anonymous - 03-15-2004, 05:21 AM
Re: B/CE - by Frank Miranda - 03-15-2004, 05:29 AM
Re: B/CE - by JRSCline - 03-15-2004, 07:00 AM
Re: B/CE - by Anonymous - 03-15-2004, 07:45 PM
Re: B/CE - by Crispvs - 03-15-2004, 08:30 PM
Re: B/CE - by Anonymous - 03-15-2004, 10:22 PM
Nope, I just not going to buy into this one. - by Anonymous - 03-16-2004, 03:47 AM
Re: B/CE - by Robert Vermaat - 03-16-2004, 08:34 AM
Re: B/CE - by Robert Vermaat - 03-16-2004, 08:55 AM
Well said, that man - by Anonymous - 03-17-2004, 01:28 AM
Re: Well said, that man - by rekirts - 03-17-2004, 03:45 AM
Re: Well said, that man - by Anonymous - 03-17-2004, 04:02 AM
The Passion of the Christ portrayal of Romans - by Anonymous - 03-17-2004, 07:33 AM
Re: Well said, that man - by Robert Vermaat - 03-17-2004, 08:32 AM
Re: Well said, that man - by Jeroen Pelgrom - 03-17-2004, 08:55 AM
Re: Well said, that man - by rekirts - 03-17-2004, 03:25 PM
Re: Well said, that man - by Robert Vermaat - 03-17-2004, 03:40 PM
Brutal yes, undisciplined, not a chance. - by Anonymous - 03-18-2004, 01:36 AM
Re: Brutal yes, undisciplined, not a chance. - by Anonymous - 03-18-2004, 11:37 PM
Re: Brutal yes, undisciplined, not a chance. - by Anonymous - 03-21-2004, 06:07 PM
Re: An alternative. - by rekirts - 03-25-2004, 02:35 PM
AUC - by Gregg - 03-25-2004, 05:08 PM
Couldn\'t resist - by Anonymous - 03-25-2004, 07:14 PM
Re: B/CE - by Vincula - 03-25-2004, 11:24 PM
I refer you to previous bits of the string, Vincula - by Anonymous - 03-26-2004, 05:11 PM
Messiah - by Anonymous - 03-30-2004, 01:26 PM
Messiah - by Ivlivs·Aemilivs·Celer - 03-30-2004, 02:30 PM
The lost years - by Anonymous - 03-30-2004, 08:42 PM
The lost years - by Ivlivs·Aemilivs·Celer - 03-31-2004, 02:14 AM
Re: Messiah - by Vincula - 03-31-2004, 09:01 AM
1.95 billion christians - by Anonymous - 03-31-2004, 06:49 PM
Nighthunter - by Anonymous - 03-31-2004, 06:51 PM
Jesus! - by Nathan Ross - 03-31-2004, 08:28 PM
Flavius Crispus: - by Anonymous - 04-01-2004, 02:03 AM
Auxiliaries? - by Gregg - 04-01-2004, 12:44 PM
Auxiliaries. - by Gregg - 04-01-2004, 01:25 PM
Re: Auxiliaries. - by Vincula - 04-01-2004, 09:07 PM
The Nazarene sect. - by Anonymous - 04-01-2004, 11:12 PM
The Nazarene sect. - by Ivlivs·Aemilivs·Celer - 04-02-2004, 08:18 PM
Nazarenes - by Anonymous - 04-03-2004, 05:07 PM
Re: Nazarenes - by Frank Miranda - 04-04-2004, 04:12 AM
That could be the source - by Anonymous - 04-04-2004, 07:22 PM
Re: That could be the source - by Frank Miranda - 04-09-2004, 04:13 AM
I suppose it\'s an opinion, Titus... - by Anonymous - 04-09-2004, 10:35 PM
Re: The Nazarene sect. - by Vincula - 04-12-2004, 03:32 PM
I should know better - by Anonymous - 04-12-2004, 10:23 PM
Re: I should know better - by Robert Vermaat - 04-13-2004, 06:49 AM
Re: I should know better - by Vincula - 04-13-2004, 08:55 AM
Re: I should know better - by Nathan Ross - 04-13-2004, 12:01 PM
Re: Il nostre agente in Judea - by Anonymous - 04-13-2004, 12:08 PM
Re: Il nostre agente in Judea - by Vincula - 04-13-2004, 01:40 PM
Re: Il nostre agente in Judea - by Los456 - 04-13-2004, 02:02 PM
Ship of fools - by Gashford - 04-14-2004, 10:26 AM
Re: Il nostre agente in Judea - by Anonymous - 04-15-2004, 09:45 AM
Re: Il nostre agente in Judea - by JRSCline - 04-15-2004, 10:13 AM
Marketing - by TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS - 04-15-2004, 11:34 AM
Re: Marketing - by Anonymous - 04-15-2004, 03:42 PM
Re: Marketing - by Anonymous - 04-15-2004, 08:39 PM
A quiet thought - by Anonymous - 04-15-2004, 09:27 PM
Re: A quiet thought - by Anonymous - 04-16-2004, 07:54 AM
Re: A quiet thought - by Robert Vermaat - 04-16-2004, 01:39 PM
Re: A quiet thought - by Anonymous - 04-16-2004, 04:39 PM
Re: A quiet thought - by Frank Miranda - 04-16-2004, 07:40 PM
The glee - by Anonymous - 04-16-2004, 07:56 PM
Re: A quiet thought - by Robert Vermaat - 04-16-2004, 09:48 PM
precisely - by Goffredo - 04-17-2004, 06:09 AM
Re: The glee - by Anonymous - 04-17-2004, 07:37 AM
Re: The glee - by Nathan Ross - 04-17-2004, 09:27 AM
I do not believe in a table - by Anonymous - 04-17-2004, 10:30 AM
swiss watch - by Goffredo - 04-17-2004, 01:02 PM
Re: I do not believe in a table - by Anonymous - 04-17-2004, 01:08 PM
Re: I do not believe in a table - by rekirts - 04-17-2004, 09:25 PM
But is it really a table... - by Anonymous - 04-17-2004, 11:18 PM
Re: But is it really a table... - by rekirts - 04-17-2004, 11:49 PM
Passion of The Passion - by Gaius Decius Aquilius - 04-18-2004, 05:03 PM
The bunny - by Anonymous - 04-19-2004, 09:55 PM
Re: The bunny - by TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS - 04-20-2004, 09:02 AM
Re: The bunny - by Anonymous - 05-09-2004, 10:57 AM
Re: The bunny - by TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS - 05-10-2004, 08:10 AM
Re: New Mel Gibson Christ movie - by richard - 05-10-2004, 08:55 AM
Erm... just a thought - by Anonymous - 05-21-2004, 11:07 PM
Just read through all those posts. - by Anonymous - 05-24-2004, 11:44 AM
erm... - by Anonymous - 05-26-2004, 12:24 AM

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