Update on the Spatha and Gladius fighting techniques!

[A_Volpe]

Martin -

For looking at I.33/Walpuris Fechtbuch, I'd recommend Dr. Jeffrey Forgeng's translation et. al. of the manual, available at Chivarly Bookshelf. Dr. Forgeng is the Curator at Higgins Armory, and I work with him in Sword Guild.

( http://www.revival.us/index.asp?PageAct ... &ProdID=98 )
( http://www.chivalrybookshelf.com/ )
( http://www.higginssword.org )

I didn't get the chance to take Steven Hand's workshop at Higgins a year or so ago, but I got to meet him afterwards, very interesting guy! Very interesting ideas and theories.

There is some really interesting, potential connections with Sword and Buckler as there is with Spatha, but I have to disagree with some of your points. I.33 is a specific system that I don't think can be readily translated to Roman weapons. granted, we don't know what those Roman techniques are, so we don't nessesarily know what to compare to, but, as I said, there are some intriguing possibilities.

To me it's really down to the Shield. The buckler in use in I.33 is used in a different way than you can use, say, a Clipeus, Parma or Scutum....You use the buckler to protect your sword hand, as well as supporting the sword hand. Although I have found using the Scutum with Shield-Knocking techniques as in I.33 is very effective, if only to strike the oponet's body more than his/her hands to pin them. (scutum is just too big)

I would have NEVER thought about using the Messer/Falchion technique you mentioned! That's great! - Are you referring to Lecuckner? (1460's I think) We've been hacking through that manual a few times (pun intended), but I'm going to have to look into trying to use the pommell to grab an oponent's wrist as you mentioned. I bet that is very effective with a gladius, Although I think more effective/practical if the oponet is striking at you to your Right side/Sword hand...If he comes at your left, then I'd just use the shield and come at him with my sword. However, I don't like the idea of using the Gladius to block a sword...To me it just doesn't seem right, or "safe" (I would not trust the "hilt" to stop anything from hitting my hand)...The idea of suddenly and quickly thrusting from "behind" the shield seems more intimidating and nasty. The Spatha I can see more as used occasionally to block attacks and then counter-strike, but not the Gladius.

I'm finding the Spatha is the pre-cursor to the Short Sword/Arming Sword as found in I.33 so surely it is both great for thrusting as well as cutting, although I think primarily it's intended for cutting, whereas the Gladius is really meant for thrusting, but just as good at cutting. I can't readily reference it now, but there is a mention of how the Romans would mock the "slashing" attack (Wrath cut / Zornhau sort of deal) by taking it in the shield and thrusting 2-3 times before the oponent knew what hit him. (is that Vegetius?)

As for the Rapier techniques you mention from Joachim Meyer 1570, I have to say I'm not really buying it. Meyer's manual has been a major body of work for us in Guild, and I can only see his techniques and purpose for Sport Fencing, not readily for outright combat. Also, German tradition of thrusting was made obsolete by 1570 for being "unsportsmanlike"; he also includes the section of Rapier only because the Rapier fighters from [Italy] are killing/wounding his students, so he only includes techniques to try to prevent that from happening. (He even says he dislikes the Rapier, he favors the Longsword) I don't see how it's going to be useful refence for a Spatha.

(speaking of Meyer, keep your eyes open in the near future for Dr. Forgeng's publication of the manual, although I don't remember which Publisher it's coming from)

Please don't get me wrong, I think you have some great points. It's certainly making me think more about possibilities, and with the later Fechtbuchs and manuals.