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Othismos true nature
#23
Felix' comment about the difficulty of re-creating phalanx fighting without seriously injuring people applies to any attempt at re-enactment, not just the SCA.

It seems to me, from my re-enactment fighting, that the face and throat must have been the targets of choice in any situation where shields were used, but more especially so where the shields were large enough to cover both the thorax and a substantial part of the legs.

Something that makes it even more attractive in Hoplite combat is the fact that, in close formation, the option to thrust at the enemy from under one's own shield no longer exists.

Re-enacting this, with metal weapons, even blunt ones, would inevitably lead to some terrible eye injuries. There are only two possible ways of overcoming this, to achieve an authentic style of combat. One is to use an inauthentic style of helmet, which has mesh or other eye protection, in conjunction with some form of protection for the throat. (A colleague of mine has seen evidence on Greek skeletons which indicate a spearthrust to the throat, with the neck vertebrae being struck from the inside.) the other method is to use practice speartips which can't penetrate the eyehole of a helmet. This is probably the simpler answer (unless we all discard helmets and use fencing masks instead) and is the one I propose to use. Tough on those who have Attic or other open-face helms, but there you are.

Something that troubles me is the number of representations in art of people with thigh wounds. We also read of men wounded in the groin. The natural assumption is that these wounds would be hard to inflict, striking over the top of an Argive shield, but I think it would be possible to inflict them as the two sides approach. Inded, this would be the ideal way to hit the enemy with a decisive stroke at the earliest possible moment. it might also be possible to strike these areas on somebody in the second or third ranks, as the front ones come to shield contact. I propose to find out!

I think it will prove important that the phalanx formation may have been treated as a weapon, rather than as a grouping of soldiers - it's essentially a big block with spikes sticking out of it, which is carried towards the enemy. The beauty of it is that, if the enemy can destroy the cutting edge, he finds another behind it. What I'm getting at is that, in this way of looking at it, there is no concern for the individual Hoplite's ability to ply his spear; all he needs to do is hold it straight towards the enemy.
Victor Davis Hanson says something like this in his book on Hoplite warfare. He speaks of how the tactic depended on the unwavering courage of the men in the front ranks, who were, effectively, being propelled onto the spiky face of the enemy phalanx. Their only hope, really, was that their spears might do more damage than the enemy's. A "short, crescendo action" indeed!

I don't know that using the edge of the spearblade to cut would be necessary; I think that, once the phalanges locked, it would be possible for men to thrust deep into the opposing formation, to find their targets (indeed this might be the only way the spears could be effective), perhaps striking across the ranks to acjieve the surprise Stefanos speaks of. I've done that sort of thing in Viking shieldwalls but I'd really like to do the Hoplite experiment in Hoplite kit, and in phalanx.
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Messages In This Thread
Othismos true nature - by Mitra - 11-13-2005, 12:29 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Alexandr K - 11-13-2005, 01:30 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 11-13-2005, 01:46 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Alexandr K - 11-13-2005, 02:20 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Mitra - 11-13-2005, 02:31 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 11-13-2005, 02:32 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Dan Diffendale - 11-13-2005, 07:39 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Alexandr K - 11-19-2005, 06:02 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Mitra - 11-20-2005, 01:09 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 11-20-2005, 02:09 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Mitra - 11-20-2005, 02:40 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Alexandr K - 11-20-2005, 02:54 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 11-20-2005, 02:58 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Alexandr K - 11-20-2005, 03:02 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 11-20-2005, 04:27 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Alexandr K - 11-20-2005, 05:41 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 11-21-2005, 11:30 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Anonymous - 11-22-2005, 06:06 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Cobra - 11-25-2005, 05:01 AM
Generals - by Felix - 11-25-2005, 11:50 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 12-26-2005, 01:54 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Anonymous - 12-26-2005, 07:01 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Comerus Gallus - 01-12-2006, 06:58 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Alexandr K - 01-12-2006, 10:09 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Anonymous - 01-12-2006, 07:27 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 01-12-2006, 07:39 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Alexandr K - 01-13-2006, 02:25 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Anonymous - 01-13-2006, 05:10 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Alexandr K - 01-14-2006, 08:24 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Anonymous - 01-14-2006, 06:56 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 08-09-2006, 01:04 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Peter Raftos - 08-09-2006, 02:47 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Felix - 08-09-2006, 06:17 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 08-09-2006, 07:31 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Anonymous - 08-10-2006, 09:27 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 08-10-2006, 10:40 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-16-2007, 10:20 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Comerus Gallus - 01-16-2007, 10:45 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-16-2007, 10:52 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 01-16-2007, 01:18 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Comerus Gallus - 01-16-2007, 08:09 PM
Goldsworthy\'s Othismos - by PMBardunias - 08-12-2007, 06:04 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Mitra - 08-16-2007, 05:54 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 08-16-2007, 06:05 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Mitra - 08-16-2007, 06:20 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 08-16-2007, 07:40 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Mitra - 08-16-2007, 07:41 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 08-16-2007, 07:47 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Mitra - 08-16-2007, 07:59 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 08-16-2007, 08:09 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 08-16-2007, 08:13 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Felix - 08-16-2007, 08:41 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 08-16-2007, 09:20 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Paullus Scipio - 08-16-2007, 10:01 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 08-16-2007, 11:12 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Paullus Scipio - 08-16-2007, 11:34 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 08-16-2007, 11:52 PM
Othismos - by Paullus Scipio - 08-17-2007, 12:24 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 08-17-2007, 06:06 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Mitra - 08-17-2007, 09:11 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 08-17-2007, 12:43 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 08-17-2007, 02:59 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Mitra - 08-17-2007, 06:30 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 08-17-2007, 09:16 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Mitra - 08-17-2007, 10:03 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 08-18-2007, 02:45 AM
Othismos - by Paullus Scipio - 08-18-2007, 04:01 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Mitra - 08-18-2007, 07:48 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Mitra - 08-18-2007, 10:17 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 08-18-2007, 01:06 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Mitra - 08-18-2007, 01:16 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 08-18-2007, 07:24 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 03-01-2008, 02:49 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 03-01-2008, 03:29 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 03-01-2008, 02:42 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 03-01-2008, 06:55 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 03-01-2008, 07:32 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 03-02-2008, 03:24 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 03-02-2008, 12:31 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by hoplite14gr - 03-02-2008, 02:45 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 03-02-2008, 03:21 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 03-02-2008, 03:34 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 03-02-2008, 04:15 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 03-02-2008, 11:08 PM
Othismos true nature - by Paullus Scipio - 03-02-2008, 11:58 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 03-03-2008, 12:41 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 03-03-2008, 03:40 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 03-03-2008, 05:42 AM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 03-03-2008, 02:19 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 03-03-2008, 05:45 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 05-05-2008, 07:01 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 05-05-2008, 10:33 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by Giannis K. Hoplite - 05-06-2008, 01:49 PM
Re: Othismos true nature - by PMBardunias - 05-06-2008, 04:06 PM

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