Request for help and critique – Polybius Bk6

[Mark Hygate]

I think here Polybius is simply saying that there are always 600 triarii, even in 5000, or as we know from Livy 5200 and occasionally 6000 man legions.

Thanks Michael,

Polybius describes the 'Roman Military System'.  As described it does not allow for 5200 nor 6000 men legions.  I have never, to the best of my knowledge, seen any publication showing the detail as in References A or B that suggests this is so.  Yes, Livy does seem to use those numbers on occasion, but I am not aware of any publication that positively supports it.

In this case, however, I am concentrating on interpreting Polybius alone...

There is every reason to think that the centurions are already counted as part of the 1200, as they are divided first, and then centurions are elected from their number. Same goes for the other officers.

Polybius (Q3 follows Q2 in the text) does indeed detail the choice of 'officers' after the division by 'class'.  However, I have to ask whether you actually think this is likely?  Personally, and indeed logically, if I am going to select a 'command staff' from 4200 people then I'm going to pick the centurions first, then they will pick their optios and signifers.  I would then select the 20 missing men for whatever they are going to do.  Then I'll be dividing the remaining 4000.

I am not sure where you are getting 50 centuries. The 60 centuries in a legion seems to be very stable.

So the 4200 legion as 1200 velites, 1200 hastati principles (suggesting each century has ten contubernia of six men) and 600 hastati.

I am suggesting that a century is 80 men (60 heavy + 20 velites).  Thus there are 50 centuries in a legion; but the triarii 'century' turned into a maniple made up of 2 half-centuries and thus 60 centurions/optios/signifers.

If, however, you are correct earlier and that the 'officers' are selected 'last' - then you are suggesting not that "each century has 10 contubernia of 6 men", but that the century is only 57 men (+ velites).  Is that correct?

Why does Polybius specifically mention the number 4000 in Q2?  To me it does indeed suggest that the '200' have actually (and sensibly) already been selected and that the 1200+1200+600 can be subtracted from the 4000 to leave 1000 velites (a number not otherwise specified).