Number of legions at Zama

[Mark Hygate]

.................. In the end Mark, I believe you will write a paper based on cherry picking the evidence to conform to your theory. When you do, you will have graduated from being an amateur historian to becoming an true academic.

Thanks Steven - that's a nicely crafted and gentle insult and I'll happily take it! 

For the first, I promise that is not my intent; especially as I am quite realistic that my research has been much narrower than I could possibly achieve in 15 years, but also because there do not seem to be, actually, that many primary sources that deal with the subject.  I am certainly concentrating on: Asclepiodotus;Livy; Polybius; Caeser; Josephus; Tactitus; Suetonius; Hyginus; Aelian; Arrian; Cassius Dio; Ammianus; Vegetius; & Maurice (Strategikon); as well as Cheeseman's work - as I literally read along my shelf.  When it comes to simple numbers quoted all over the place, then I am not trying to fit each one at all; I am too aware of numbers changing over the course of any campaign, and even some numbers not fitting the model due to circumstance (cf not achieving the desired cavalry numbers during stages of the Punic Wars due to over-straining the available supply of horses.

What I will be seeking by hopefully generating the interest to do so here, is asking for all the criticism I can get and examples (perhaps even supporting, but certainly against) that I have not been able to find myself.

The last I had to smile at as it's genuinely something I am against myself!  I am very sceptical of those who rely on the work of others and are simply measured by which 'acedemics' they quote and reference and agree with.  For I definately don't plan to do that!  I'm quite happy to be a bit rough and also to interpolate along that best fit line.....

PS - My apologies; I don't know enough about Pythagoras' other interests to use that as a descriptor with confidence; beyond the trigonometry I learned at school those many years ago.  I am, supposedly unusually for an Army Officer, able to use a map and compass with confidence! 

PPS - I will try to answer the 5th-10 'Can you's' at the weekend as part of a new post.

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Hi Mark

Essentially, a mobile field army is limited to 50k.  This is due to the necessity of feeding the pack animals that feed the army.  However, this rule can be broken if it can be supplied from a superior source.  A good example is having the army supplied by sea, hence the reason for the battle of Thermopylae as an example.  Another example, is if an army is semi permanently encamped, thus can have several sources of supply, such as at Cannae or Gaugamela.  That's why I retracted my erroneous statement about Syphax's army at Uttica being too large.

Nick,

Thank you indeed.  I am now seriously wondering about an Amazon purchase of his work for my personal Xmas present!

I now wonder, indeed, if a 'doubled enhanced-legion Consular Army/or two standard similar Consular Armies' (and so 40,000 Inf and 4,800 Cavalry) is that size due to that restriction?

However, if it's two of the former that take different routes to the battle (cf Cannae), then why cannot they both be supplied with sufficient Mules, Oxen and Wagons?  The camp at Cannae seems otherwise to confirm to a Polybian-standard marching camp concept, rather that something more permanent and stockpiled...

Finally, I wonder if that standard applies all the way up to the Second World War?  Even then it was only the Allies that truly mechanised - German logistics was still largely horse-drawn.