03-30-2019, 04:14 AM
Michael wrote:
Is Orosius 20,500 the sum of Anitas` 12,000 killed plus 8,500 of Appian`s prisoners.
Appian and Orosius are using two different sources. Antias’ 12,000 killed and 1,700 captured, if you take the 1,700 prisoners and multiply them by five you get Appian’s 8,500 men. Coincidence? If we return to Appian’s source that has 140 elephants compared to Livy’s 14 elephants for Utica, now this source cannot multiply 1,700 prisoners by 10 as he would end up with 17,000 Carthaginian prisoners. So multiplication by five is a better number. This source, for want of a name I have called the great fabricator, works on the larger the historical number, the smaller the multiplication for exaggeration.
Modern scholars, with all its problems, accept there was a battle of Zama, so no further enquiry is required. Appian, Frontinus, Livy and Zonaras also mention a cavalry engagement and the capture of Hannibal’s supply train at Zama. Appian, Frontinus and Zonaras have Hannibal’s supply train captured at Zama. A military tribune surrounds and ambushes the supply train. Have a look at the sentence structure between Appian’s casualties for Hannibal’s supply train and Polybius’ causalities for the battle of Zama
Appian 4,000 killed and as many prisoners
Polybius 20,000 killed and the same number of men captured
Notice, how like Appian, Polybius cannot provide a figure for those captured. Notice how Polybius’ killed (20,000) is five times greater than Appian (4,000). When the Roman military tribune attacked Hannibal’s supply train, the Romans surrounded the supply train. Remember at the Great Plains, how 4,000 Celtiberians were surrounded. Also remember Livy includes 4,000 Macedonians in Hannibal’s second line at Zama. There certainly is an obsession with the figure of 4,000 men. Amongst the data relating to Zama is the reason as to why some numbers have been multiplied by five. It’s the smoking gun. The varying numbers for Zama is due to the varying ancient writers using different methods of counting. They all leave a different but distinct mathematical signature.
Michael wrote:
Where does Appian`s figure of 25,000 come from?
Remember how I explained how Appian recounts the same number of ships for Scipio’s fleet. This is another example. In fact most of my research from the beginning of the republic to the end of the Third Macedonian War, which is the end of Livy, has many examples of the subtotals being added to the grand total. It is a case of using too many sources and perceiving rounded subunit numbers to be new data. However, I found this is the key to unlocking the door. The more contradictory numbers given for a battle, makes it that much easiest to unravel.
I like your avatar. However, hasn't Noddy been branded a racist by the fascist left?
Is Orosius 20,500 the sum of Anitas` 12,000 killed plus 8,500 of Appian`s prisoners.
Appian and Orosius are using two different sources. Antias’ 12,000 killed and 1,700 captured, if you take the 1,700 prisoners and multiply them by five you get Appian’s 8,500 men. Coincidence? If we return to Appian’s source that has 140 elephants compared to Livy’s 14 elephants for Utica, now this source cannot multiply 1,700 prisoners by 10 as he would end up with 17,000 Carthaginian prisoners. So multiplication by five is a better number. This source, for want of a name I have called the great fabricator, works on the larger the historical number, the smaller the multiplication for exaggeration.
Modern scholars, with all its problems, accept there was a battle of Zama, so no further enquiry is required. Appian, Frontinus, Livy and Zonaras also mention a cavalry engagement and the capture of Hannibal’s supply train at Zama. Appian, Frontinus and Zonaras have Hannibal’s supply train captured at Zama. A military tribune surrounds and ambushes the supply train. Have a look at the sentence structure between Appian’s casualties for Hannibal’s supply train and Polybius’ causalities for the battle of Zama
Appian 4,000 killed and as many prisoners
Polybius 20,000 killed and the same number of men captured
Notice, how like Appian, Polybius cannot provide a figure for those captured. Notice how Polybius’ killed (20,000) is five times greater than Appian (4,000). When the Roman military tribune attacked Hannibal’s supply train, the Romans surrounded the supply train. Remember at the Great Plains, how 4,000 Celtiberians were surrounded. Also remember Livy includes 4,000 Macedonians in Hannibal’s second line at Zama. There certainly is an obsession with the figure of 4,000 men. Amongst the data relating to Zama is the reason as to why some numbers have been multiplied by five. It’s the smoking gun. The varying numbers for Zama is due to the varying ancient writers using different methods of counting. They all leave a different but distinct mathematical signature.
Michael wrote:
Where does Appian`s figure of 25,000 come from?
Remember how I explained how Appian recounts the same number of ships for Scipio’s fleet. This is another example. In fact most of my research from the beginning of the republic to the end of the Third Macedonian War, which is the end of Livy, has many examples of the subtotals being added to the grand total. It is a case of using too many sources and perceiving rounded subunit numbers to be new data. However, I found this is the key to unlocking the door. The more contradictory numbers given for a battle, makes it that much easiest to unravel.
I like your avatar. However, hasn't Noddy been branded a racist by the fascist left?
