01-24-2017, 06:00 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2017, 06:55 PM by Damianus Albus.)
I admit it's a bit of a necro but it was imo pointless to start new thread as this one is quite complete.
So I've had quite few argues with Mr. D'Amato over facebook about leather armors. He went totaly ad personam, plus he said that I didn't read his books where he put all evidences for leather muscule armor.
So I did my research and I'd like to know your opinion. I can talk only for thing he wrote and choose to put photo in or which I could find in the net.
1. Firstly he claims that "Many momuments... show the great muscled armor... in leather version"
- What's the source for this, apart from personal POV?
2. According to him statue from Adana show leather muscle (anyone knows what's about? put a pictre of what it migt be? ""two winged griffins looking at eagle ith lightning bolt"
3. Prima Porta made of leather.
- I find it striking how anyone can say that it was clearly made of leather basing on hinges and seam of the armor. I belive, it could be made of leather but according to D'Amato it was clearly made of leather. But one thing he doesn't notice are huge, massive hinges on arms. Why would anyone put so massive hinges for light leather armor?
4. Marcs Caelius monument clearly shows leather becasue once it was painted by brown paint. Short sleeves were also made in leather by sewing.
- Again, I find it amazing how anyone can say, basing on a paint that something was made in leather. Brown color can point for bronze armor imo.
- We know that such arm protection in also easily achieved by metal, not just leather so I wonder why he doesn't polemics with himself about other option but states that it is clearly leather
5. Gravestone of evocatus one preserved in museum of Graz (can't find it)
6. Some Flavian monument in villa albani (can't find)
7. The Gemma Augustea
- I truly can't find anything what would say anything about used materials.
8. Hadrian statur from Bergama.
- we clearly see something shaped like muscle cuirass which bends 90 degree, but no muscles shape. According to D'Amato it is clearly leather, but again, I ask why? It could be ust artist invetion, it could be made of linen, wool, or leather. There are few possibilities but for D'Amato it si clearly leather. How does one can know such thing?
9. He says that it could have good protection becasue cuir-boilli had but cuir is around XII.
And of course there are plenty things to say, which were already mentioned here by Dan.
So here is thing... Am I missing something which forbids me from seeing those obvious evidences for leather (as I'm very opposed for leather in this form of armor)? Becasue from my POV all evidences for leather muscle armor is nothing else than personal POV backed with nothing.
But maybe I'm wrong?
So I've had quite few argues with Mr. D'Amato over facebook about leather armors. He went totaly ad personam, plus he said that I didn't read his books where he put all evidences for leather muscule armor.
So I did my research and I'd like to know your opinion. I can talk only for thing he wrote and choose to put photo in or which I could find in the net.
1. Firstly he claims that "Many momuments... show the great muscled armor... in leather version"
- What's the source for this, apart from personal POV?
2. According to him statue from Adana show leather muscle (anyone knows what's about? put a pictre of what it migt be? ""two winged griffins looking at eagle ith lightning bolt"
3. Prima Porta made of leather.
- I find it striking how anyone can say that it was clearly made of leather basing on hinges and seam of the armor. I belive, it could be made of leather but according to D'Amato it was clearly made of leather. But one thing he doesn't notice are huge, massive hinges on arms. Why would anyone put so massive hinges for light leather armor?
4. Marcs Caelius monument clearly shows leather becasue once it was painted by brown paint. Short sleeves were also made in leather by sewing.
- Again, I find it amazing how anyone can say, basing on a paint that something was made in leather. Brown color can point for bronze armor imo.
- We know that such arm protection in also easily achieved by metal, not just leather so I wonder why he doesn't polemics with himself about other option but states that it is clearly leather
5. Gravestone of evocatus one preserved in museum of Graz (can't find it)
6. Some Flavian monument in villa albani (can't find)
7. The Gemma Augustea
- I truly can't find anything what would say anything about used materials.
8. Hadrian statur from Bergama.
- we clearly see something shaped like muscle cuirass which bends 90 degree, but no muscles shape. According to D'Amato it is clearly leather, but again, I ask why? It could be ust artist invetion, it could be made of linen, wool, or leather. There are few possibilities but for D'Amato it si clearly leather. How does one can know such thing?
9. He says that it could have good protection becasue cuir-boilli had but cuir is around XII.
And of course there are plenty things to say, which were already mentioned here by Dan.
So here is thing... Am I missing something which forbids me from seeing those obvious evidences for leather (as I'm very opposed for leather in this form of armor)? Becasue from my POV all evidences for leather muscle armor is nothing else than personal POV backed with nothing.
But maybe I'm wrong?
Damian
