09-07-2016, 11:16 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2016, 11:28 AM by Paullus Scipio.)
Paul Bardunias wrote:
"What you describe a blanket type material may have been heavy twined linen."
Certainly that's a possibility, for as I've said, you can't determine what something is made of from iconography alone. However, given the great expense of linen, at the very time Thucydides records that the Athenians gave up their "luxurious" linen clothes, it would seem unlikely.
I attach another example of the 'perizoma' from the same period around the Peloponnesian wars by the Kleophon painter, this time worn over a chiton so perhaps therefore implying it is some sort of protective kilt.( or simply a Thracian fashion? see post).
Incidently, 'perizoma' appears to be another made up word, we don't actually know from our source material what this garment was called.
On the other hand, I attach a different warrior arming and departure scene, with the black 'aspis', by the same painter showing a full length tunic of a similar material (not worn over a chiton), also patterned but not the same pattern as on the 'two 'perizoma'.
Lastly, a standing hoplite by the Achilles painter from the same period, also showing a full length patterned tunic, not worn over a chiton, with yet another pattern. Note he is wearing a 'new fangled' Thracian helmet. This is the clue to what we are seeing. At this time things Thracian were very fashionable, and young Athenians even dressed in full Thracian costume for riding. Bearing this in mind, it is clear that the two full length patterned tunics are simply typical Thracian tunics, made of warmer and thicker wool than those of warmer Athens, and not protective gear at all. Whether this also applies to the 'perizoma'/kilts cannot be ascertained - protective gear, or simply fashionable Thracian accoutrements? The patterns certainly imply the latter.....
I believe you pointed out late last year here on RAT that a variation on the word 'hamata' namely 'hamis'/hooked occurs in Virgils 'Aneid' ( 1st C BC), and perhaps Jerome picked up on this.......
"What you describe a blanket type material may have been heavy twined linen."
Certainly that's a possibility, for as I've said, you can't determine what something is made of from iconography alone. However, given the great expense of linen, at the very time Thucydides records that the Athenians gave up their "luxurious" linen clothes, it would seem unlikely.
I attach another example of the 'perizoma' from the same period around the Peloponnesian wars by the Kleophon painter, this time worn over a chiton so perhaps therefore implying it is some sort of protective kilt.( or simply a Thracian fashion? see post).
Incidently, 'perizoma' appears to be another made up word, we don't actually know from our source material what this garment was called.
On the other hand, I attach a different warrior arming and departure scene, with the black 'aspis', by the same painter showing a full length tunic of a similar material (not worn over a chiton), also patterned but not the same pattern as on the 'two 'perizoma'.
Lastly, a standing hoplite by the Achilles painter from the same period, also showing a full length patterned tunic, not worn over a chiton, with yet another pattern. Note he is wearing a 'new fangled' Thracian helmet. This is the clue to what we are seeing. At this time things Thracian were very fashionable, and young Athenians even dressed in full Thracian costume for riding. Bearing this in mind, it is clear that the two full length patterned tunics are simply typical Thracian tunics, made of warmer and thicker wool than those of warmer Athens, and not protective gear at all. Whether this also applies to the 'perizoma'/kilts cannot be ascertained - protective gear, or simply fashionable Thracian accoutrements? The patterns certainly imply the latter.....
(09-07-2016, 08:20 AM)Dan Howard Wrote:That would be because Polybius and Josephus both wrote in Greek!Quote:In Latin we have the term for mail body armour [lorica hamata]...
Not really. I think the earliest use of this term is Jerome's Vulgate in 405 AD. We have no idea what earlier generations called this armour. Most of the other texts, such as Polybius and Josephus, use the Greek thôraka halusidôton.
I believe you pointed out late last year here on RAT that a variation on the word 'hamata' namely 'hamis'/hooked occurs in Virgils 'Aneid' ( 1st C BC), and perhaps Jerome picked up on this.......
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff