03-25-2002, 12:51 PM
Hi All,<br>
<br>
A very interesting link, considering my own period of interest (350-600AD). A few comments.<br>
<br>
- Vanina Orso wrote:<br>
"First of all, the best troops at the time were the Huns and the Alani"<br>
I disagree with that. There were a lot of elite troops in the Late Roman Army, and post-Adrianople did not mean the cavalry suddenly became the measure of things. Though I agree that quality varied a lot, mostly between the Limitanei and the Comitatenses, it could vary between unit as well. Alani were not 'the best troops', but they certainly did well as part of the mobile field armies. Nor were the Germanic troops 'more loyal' than Roman forces. I would like to know where you got that idea from. Elton, as one of the few, vehemently diagrees with the 'Barabarization' of the post-Constantine army, and I agree with him that this is a very popular idea, based mostly on Germanic influences, but not on the sources.<br>
<br>
- Vanina Orso wrote:<br>
"Some Roman mounted troops could be recruited but the easier solution was to made from this Barbarian warriors Roman soldiers."<br>
I agree, but please bear in mind that A) this had been normal Roman practise since the days of the Republic (and therefore nothing really changed) and B) there were excellent elite 'Roman' cavalry units as well.<br>
<br>
- Vanina Orso wrote:<br>
" The demographic collapse made difficult to have enough men for every purpose, and we have a lot of information about the high rates of desertions and mutilations to avoid conscription."<br>
This is correct, but as Elton shows, it is never that much of a problem that we should think of a recruiting shortage. Only on a very few occasions is compulsory drafting ordered, no evidence suggests that Germanic troops were needed just to make up the numbers. Loyalty would also not be an issue to look over the border. However, professionalism (Germanic bands came trained, at least up to a certain level), mobility (they would be easier to move around, with no families to protect) enthousiasm and part-time issues (these groops could be disbanded more easily) would speak in their favour.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Robert Vermaat<br>
[email protected] <br>
<br>
Vortigern Studies<br>
www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/<br>
Wansdyke Project 21<br>
www.wansdyke21.org.uk/<br>
Robert's Arthurian Collection<br>
www.geocities.com/vortige...grarth.htm<br>
<p></p><i></i>
<br>
A very interesting link, considering my own period of interest (350-600AD). A few comments.<br>
<br>
- Vanina Orso wrote:<br>
"First of all, the best troops at the time were the Huns and the Alani"<br>
I disagree with that. There were a lot of elite troops in the Late Roman Army, and post-Adrianople did not mean the cavalry suddenly became the measure of things. Though I agree that quality varied a lot, mostly between the Limitanei and the Comitatenses, it could vary between unit as well. Alani were not 'the best troops', but they certainly did well as part of the mobile field armies. Nor were the Germanic troops 'more loyal' than Roman forces. I would like to know where you got that idea from. Elton, as one of the few, vehemently diagrees with the 'Barabarization' of the post-Constantine army, and I agree with him that this is a very popular idea, based mostly on Germanic influences, but not on the sources.<br>
<br>
- Vanina Orso wrote:<br>
"Some Roman mounted troops could be recruited but the easier solution was to made from this Barbarian warriors Roman soldiers."<br>
I agree, but please bear in mind that A) this had been normal Roman practise since the days of the Republic (and therefore nothing really changed) and B) there were excellent elite 'Roman' cavalry units as well.<br>
<br>
- Vanina Orso wrote:<br>
" The demographic collapse made difficult to have enough men for every purpose, and we have a lot of information about the high rates of desertions and mutilations to avoid conscription."<br>
This is correct, but as Elton shows, it is never that much of a problem that we should think of a recruiting shortage. Only on a very few occasions is compulsory drafting ordered, no evidence suggests that Germanic troops were needed just to make up the numbers. Loyalty would also not be an issue to look over the border. However, professionalism (Germanic bands came trained, at least up to a certain level), mobility (they would be easier to move around, with no families to protect) enthousiasm and part-time issues (these groops could be disbanded more easily) would speak in their favour.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Robert Vermaat<br>
[email protected] <br>
<br>
Vortigern Studies<br>
www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/<br>
Wansdyke Project 21<br>
www.wansdyke21.org.uk/<br>
Robert's Arthurian Collection<br>
www.geocities.com/vortige...grarth.htm<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
