12-08-2014, 08:09 PM
Quote:Polybios also mentioned Spaniards and Celts fighting in Sperai, yet nobody considers them to fight in phalanx... Roman Scutum was larger, and was convex. Several Roman historians mention it was much bigger than Celtic shield, while Greek Thureos is also mentioned to be smaller to allow infantry moving faster.
So, Roman Scutum was larger, was convex shield that remotely looked like flat thureos used by Celts or Greeks, yet besides the remote similarity it was not the same shield. after all, Parmae was same size and shape as Aspis/Clippeus, yet nobody says they were the same. After all, Livy called Phalangites "Caetrati" yet nobody wants to suggest Caetra was same as Macedonic Pelta..
Besides, Thureophoroi was no a name only linked with infantry but also with cavalry so that theory has some holes in it..
Polybius calls the Roman shield a thureos, because the Greek term for that type of shield is thureos. Thureos doesn't mean flat shield. Then or now. It meant "door stop" or something similar, and was the term used by the Greeks to describe the long, narrowish center handgrip style shield commonly used by the Latins, Gauls, and other people. The Latin name for this shield is scutum.
The aspis and early clipeus are synonymous with one another, they are simply different words in different languages to describe the same type of shield. Scutum/Thureos was similar. Do you think the Gauls in the 4th Cent. BC., before they invaded Greece were calling their style shields a thureos? No, because thureos is the Greek word for that type. Same applies to every other nationality that used that type of shield. All had their own word to describe it, but they all were the same style shield.
The parma might have been round like the aspis/clipeus but it wasn't the same type of shield, wasn't used the same way, or constructed the same way. One was held in the center, had a shield boss, sometimes spina, while the other one was domed, rimmed, and strapped to the arm. Totally different shield designs.
The Roman scutum design differs from the Greek or Gallic versions in that they typically were curved, reinforced with metal on the top and bottom, and were usually wider and sometimes longer. But that doesn't classify them as a different type of shield.
Also, some cavalry were called thureophoroi because they carried a thureos. Those that carry a thureos=bearer of thureos=thureophoroi
Also also, according to Fernando Quesada, the Spanish did fight sometimes in ordered fashion, similar to the Romans.
Not so different: individual fighting techniques and battle tacticsof Roman and Iberian armies within the framework of warfarein the Hellenistic Age.
Caesar's Commentaries describe the Helvetii as fighting as a phalanx (DBG, 1.25 & 1.52). They too carried a thureos style shield (but didn't refer to it obviously using a Greek word).
