11-24-2014, 01:01 AM
So, I've been talking to Dan with the PM function to see if I had some bone the size he might be able to work with but it seems like opening this discussion on this thread might get some better incite.
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Hello,
Thanks for writing, and sorry it took me so long to write back.
I think that for this project, the size needed would be at least 2-1/4 inches/57mm long by 2-1/4 inches wide at the top by 1-1/4 inch/32mm thick. Those are slightly larger than the measurements of the temporary wood chape, hopefully including room for error. I understand this is an unusual requirement as far as bone carving goes.
Anyway, I appreciate the consideration.
-- Dan
Unfortunately, I can tell you there are no bones in a cow that thick. Not by a long shot. If you don't mind gluing four pieces together (similar to some methods of scabbard production) it might work. Re looking at the chap you might be able to the to get away with gluing two pieces of slightly triangular shape together which might get you that shape like the photo you posted but it will be hollow and not to thick for high relief carving.
I'll get some measurements on a picture for you in a day or two but the ends of the bone that might be the right height and with are only about 3/16 thick. The thickest part is only about a 1/2 inch thick but not more than an inch and a quarter in width.
I'll get back to you shortly.
-Frank
That's interesting. Looking back at the Louvre chape, it is apparently much smaller (and especially thinner, only 1 centimeter. Actually their site says 10cm but I'm preeetty sure that's a misprint) than one I'd need.
I think my akinakes has an unusually long blade, bulky hilt (wood rather than iron), and the scabbard wood (pine) is on the weak side, so my scabbard is larger and thicker than it should be and the chape would also be scaled up somewhat.
What's your opinion on using knuckle ends from leg bones? I was under the impression they would have less hollow space for marrow than the middle.
Thanks for your time.
-- Dan
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The ends of the bones is where the honey comb like structures are and for all my purposes have been un usable so I cut them off and throw them away. 1cm Thickness is a much more realistic thickness but a 1cm thickness along with the length and width you want are going to be tricky with cow bone. I have to admit however that the bones I use are from European cows which are normally quite a bit smaller than the various American breeds. I think the smaller European ones are a bit closer in size to the ones in antiquity but it does make some projects very difficult. Do you know for sure what kind of bone was used for the chape? There is a good chance that it might have been whale, or elephant both of whom have very large usable portions of bone but not permissible to purchase now a days. There may be other bones that can be used such a mammoth but it might be cost prohibitive for your purposes.
Do you mind if I copy this discussion to open it back up on your topic? Others might have better info than I do. I had just hoped that I might have a bit of bone to send to you but it looks like you will have to find another means to acquire some material for your project.
Frank
Well, now I'm not sure what to think. It seems sensible that if these things were commonly made from bone, then the usual source for them would be livestock or common game animals like deer (or maybe your enemies, if you happen to be a Skythian), but of course what seems sensible to me could be dead wrong. If it's that difficult to get a lump that big from those sources then I'd think a multi-piece assembly like you mentioned would be likely, but I haven't found mention of that.
To my knowledge, there have been two bone akinakes chapes found; the other finds are bronze, and integral ones on the wood scabbard from Egypt and the ivory one from Takht-i Sangin. The second bone example I've seen is here:
Unfortunately, the thickness is not given.
I certainly wouldn't mind you publishing this conversation. Thank you for your assistance.
Dan
"
"
Hello,
Thanks for writing, and sorry it took me so long to write back.
I think that for this project, the size needed would be at least 2-1/4 inches/57mm long by 2-1/4 inches wide at the top by 1-1/4 inch/32mm thick. Those are slightly larger than the measurements of the temporary wood chape, hopefully including room for error. I understand this is an unusual requirement as far as bone carving goes.
Anyway, I appreciate the consideration.
-- Dan
Unfortunately, I can tell you there are no bones in a cow that thick. Not by a long shot. If you don't mind gluing four pieces together (similar to some methods of scabbard production) it might work. Re looking at the chap you might be able to the to get away with gluing two pieces of slightly triangular shape together which might get you that shape like the photo you posted but it will be hollow and not to thick for high relief carving.
I'll get some measurements on a picture for you in a day or two but the ends of the bone that might be the right height and with are only about 3/16 thick. The thickest part is only about a 1/2 inch thick but not more than an inch and a quarter in width.
I'll get back to you shortly.
-Frank
That's interesting. Looking back at the Louvre chape, it is apparently much smaller (and especially thinner, only 1 centimeter. Actually their site says 10cm but I'm preeetty sure that's a misprint) than one I'd need.
I think my akinakes has an unusually long blade, bulky hilt (wood rather than iron), and the scabbard wood (pine) is on the weak side, so my scabbard is larger and thicker than it should be and the chape would also be scaled up somewhat.
What's your opinion on using knuckle ends from leg bones? I was under the impression they would have less hollow space for marrow than the middle.
Thanks for your time.
-- Dan
__________
The ends of the bones is where the honey comb like structures are and for all my purposes have been un usable so I cut them off and throw them away. 1cm Thickness is a much more realistic thickness but a 1cm thickness along with the length and width you want are going to be tricky with cow bone. I have to admit however that the bones I use are from European cows which are normally quite a bit smaller than the various American breeds. I think the smaller European ones are a bit closer in size to the ones in antiquity but it does make some projects very difficult. Do you know for sure what kind of bone was used for the chape? There is a good chance that it might have been whale, or elephant both of whom have very large usable portions of bone but not permissible to purchase now a days. There may be other bones that can be used such a mammoth but it might be cost prohibitive for your purposes.
Do you mind if I copy this discussion to open it back up on your topic? Others might have better info than I do. I had just hoped that I might have a bit of bone to send to you but it looks like you will have to find another means to acquire some material for your project.
Frank
Well, now I'm not sure what to think. It seems sensible that if these things were commonly made from bone, then the usual source for them would be livestock or common game animals like deer (or maybe your enemies, if you happen to be a Skythian), but of course what seems sensible to me could be dead wrong. If it's that difficult to get a lump that big from those sources then I'd think a multi-piece assembly like you mentioned would be likely, but I haven't found mention of that.
To my knowledge, there have been two bone akinakes chapes found; the other finds are bronze, and integral ones on the wood scabbard from Egypt and the ivory one from Takht-i Sangin. The second bone example I've seen is here:
Unfortunately, the thickness is not given.
I certainly wouldn't mind you publishing this conversation. Thank you for your assistance.
Dan
"
