09-16-2014, 01:46 AM
Fransceso wrote:
In the sixth book of his historiae Polybius says that velites were assigned to each maniple, so they should have been commanded by centurions...i don't know if, in the inital stage of a battle, when all velites used to be in front of the army, they had some sort of direct command sistem with centurions of their own maniple...
I can’t see the centurions of the maniples of hastati, principes and triarii being present with the velites when they are massed in front of the whole army as they were at Zama. This would involve the centurions having to return to their own maniples after the skirmishing of the velites is over (those that lived) and then have them take command and fight with their own maniple. This would be asking a lot of the centurions.
The references I have massed lately points towards the velites having their own officers. For example, in 207 BC, in an engagement against the Carthaginians, Livy (27 41) reports the Roman commander Nero, ordered five cohorts and five maniples to take up position on the reverse slope in order to set a trap against the Carthaginians. My money is that the five maniples are velites.
I have an file of references I keep that do not make sense or are difficult to fathom (called the X file) but now by including officers with the velites these primary source references make a lot of sense especially all references to legions of 5200 men. Originally this legion had more rounding of the number than other legions but with the inclusion of the additional officers, the rounding is the same as other legions so I have continuity of methodology.
Since I made this post I have answered my own questions…the velites have a unit organisation and their own officers.
In the sixth book of his historiae Polybius says that velites were assigned to each maniple, so they should have been commanded by centurions...i don't know if, in the inital stage of a battle, when all velites used to be in front of the army, they had some sort of direct command sistem with centurions of their own maniple...
I can’t see the centurions of the maniples of hastati, principes and triarii being present with the velites when they are massed in front of the whole army as they were at Zama. This would involve the centurions having to return to their own maniples after the skirmishing of the velites is over (those that lived) and then have them take command and fight with their own maniple. This would be asking a lot of the centurions.
The references I have massed lately points towards the velites having their own officers. For example, in 207 BC, in an engagement against the Carthaginians, Livy (27 41) reports the Roman commander Nero, ordered five cohorts and five maniples to take up position on the reverse slope in order to set a trap against the Carthaginians. My money is that the five maniples are velites.
I have an file of references I keep that do not make sense or are difficult to fathom (called the X file) but now by including officers with the velites these primary source references make a lot of sense especially all references to legions of 5200 men. Originally this legion had more rounding of the number than other legions but with the inclusion of the additional officers, the rounding is the same as other legions so I have continuity of methodology.
Since I made this post I have answered my own questions…the velites have a unit organisation and their own officers.
