08-05-2014, 03:41 PM
Olaf,
I think I understand what you are stating. The Straight Knee stance is deicted in the middle frieze on the gladiatorial relief you attached, correct?
I played around with it a bit and it seems to work like you state, easy to immediately spring forward simple by shifting the weight of the hips forward. Its reminiscent of some classical fencing guard positions, I've noticed. My only worry would be that with the weight shifted to the rear leg, it shifts the entire fighter's center of balance to the rear, making it easy to knock the fighter back with some unexpected blow such as from a shield attack. Also, it overly exposes the leading foot, which can be stepped on (by hobnailed boots like in the frieze), kicked out with sweep kick, stabbed with pilum, spear or sword depending on adversary, or smashed with the rim of a four foot tall scutum. With a position such as that, greaves appear to be necessary. Unfortunately, Romans ranker soldiers (miles gregarius) appeared to have stopped wearing their single greaves in the 2nd or 1st Cent. BC. But its definitely a different tool in the tool box, so to speak.
Both Vegetius as well as Valerius Maximus in his account of the first Gladiators training miles under Publius Rutilius Rufus stress the "attack under the cover of the shield".
Not to pick a fight, but where did you get this from? Valerius Maximus doesn't mention shields.
"The tradition of training soldiers in handling weapons was started by the consul Publius Rutilius, who was consul with Gnaeus Mallius. There was no precedent set up by an previous general for Rutilius to follow, so he summoned trainers from the gladiatorial school of Gaius Aurelius Scaurus. That is how the finer arts of evading or inflicting blows became second nature to our legions. Rutilius created a fine mixture of skill with courage and courage with skill, so that their skill became braver under the impact of their courage, while their courage became more prudent by their acquisition of skill."
V. Maximus, Memorable Deeds and Sayings, 2.3.2
Did you summarize Vegetius (1, 11)?
"...but was thus above all particularly cautioned not to lay himself open to his antagonist while aiming his stroke at him."
But this could mean almost anything, such as not leaving your sword arm exposed when attacking.
Also, where does Vegetius state right foot forward in fighting stance or that a deduction because he states the single greave when worn was on the right leg?
Either way, some very interesting thoughts on the matter. I look forward to reading more about it on your Facebook page once you finish.
I think I understand what you are stating. The Straight Knee stance is deicted in the middle frieze on the gladiatorial relief you attached, correct?
I played around with it a bit and it seems to work like you state, easy to immediately spring forward simple by shifting the weight of the hips forward. Its reminiscent of some classical fencing guard positions, I've noticed. My only worry would be that with the weight shifted to the rear leg, it shifts the entire fighter's center of balance to the rear, making it easy to knock the fighter back with some unexpected blow such as from a shield attack. Also, it overly exposes the leading foot, which can be stepped on (by hobnailed boots like in the frieze), kicked out with sweep kick, stabbed with pilum, spear or sword depending on adversary, or smashed with the rim of a four foot tall scutum. With a position such as that, greaves appear to be necessary. Unfortunately, Romans ranker soldiers (miles gregarius) appeared to have stopped wearing their single greaves in the 2nd or 1st Cent. BC. But its definitely a different tool in the tool box, so to speak.
Both Vegetius as well as Valerius Maximus in his account of the first Gladiators training miles under Publius Rutilius Rufus stress the "attack under the cover of the shield".
Not to pick a fight, but where did you get this from? Valerius Maximus doesn't mention shields.
"The tradition of training soldiers in handling weapons was started by the consul Publius Rutilius, who was consul with Gnaeus Mallius. There was no precedent set up by an previous general for Rutilius to follow, so he summoned trainers from the gladiatorial school of Gaius Aurelius Scaurus. That is how the finer arts of evading or inflicting blows became second nature to our legions. Rutilius created a fine mixture of skill with courage and courage with skill, so that their skill became braver under the impact of their courage, while their courage became more prudent by their acquisition of skill."
V. Maximus, Memorable Deeds and Sayings, 2.3.2
Did you summarize Vegetius (1, 11)?
"...but was thus above all particularly cautioned not to lay himself open to his antagonist while aiming his stroke at him."
But this could mean almost anything, such as not leaving your sword arm exposed when attacking.
Also, where does Vegetius state right foot forward in fighting stance or that a deduction because he states the single greave when worn was on the right leg?
Either way, some very interesting thoughts on the matter. I look forward to reading more about it on your Facebook page once you finish.
