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Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows
#36
Back to you, Sean

I'm in the middle of moving and my reference library is boxed. I was going by memory, and it could be the entire arrow weighed at 3 or 4 ounces, and these were Manchu as mentioned. In the above post, I illustrated standard steppe arrow heads, which were smaller. Here are some large Manchu heads, and the arrow weight was upwards to 100 grams, about 3.53 ounces:
[attachment=10157]military.jpg[/attachment]

Heavy arrows were and are less effected by the wind, therefore more accurate than light ones. You hear a lot about "reed" arrows, but steppe ones often had poplar or birch shafts even though the various tribes had easy access to reed. Mine have pine shafts and a very light bodkin, and weigh between 1.3 and 1.4 ounces.

You cited Adam Karpowitz and Turkish bows, which is comparing apples to oranges because I was referring to Sarmat-Hunnic bows from antiquity. On the Turkish model, Karpowitz mentions "Two Bows" he built, stating, "The tips do not have horn inserts of bone overlays as the lighter draw weights did not require such reinforcement," and he adds, "these bows have substantially lower draw weights than the old ones." His bows have a draw-weight of 64 pounds at a 28-inch draw.

So, what about the "old ones," like maybe "war bows." Forty six authentic Turkish bows, 39 from the Topkapi Palace Collection and 7 from the Military Museum of Istanbul, have been tested-- and their draw-weight averaged 110 to 120 pounds.

I imagine these Turkish bows were tested at a 28 inch draw. However, the Sarmat-Hunnic bow was longer than a Turkish bow, averaging 58 to 59 inches, or 1.5 meters. Such a bow can be drawn to 32 inches, or 4 inches beyond the Turkic bow. So Czaba Grozer's 55-pound bow, when "stacked" another 4 inches exceeds 64 pounds. If we had a steppe warrior like Cherchen Man (6-foot 3-inches) he could draw a bow the full reach of 32 inches. Overall, we are seeing heavy-draw bows. And the Hunnic bows, built with 7 to 8 reinforcing overlays (which Karpowitz didn't need), were designed to shoot distance and, at the same time, down an enemy at short range.

Frankly, my estimate of a rugged draw-weight as 100 pounds was conservative
.

As for Maurice? Again it's apples and oranges, because a steppe archer and a Roman one were two entirely different bowmen (or bow-women). His soldiers began shooting bows after reaching adulthood. On the steppe, a 4-year-old began the same rote, even little girls; and by adulthood he or she was far more powerful and accurate than Maurice's archer. Either gender was impressive, and that's why we see Scythian women commonly on Greek earthenware:

[attachment=10158]012.JPG[/attachment]


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Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
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Messages In This Thread
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Andy - 06-13-2014, 02:42 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-13-2014, 03:29 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Andy - 06-13-2014, 04:09 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-13-2014, 04:33 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-13-2014, 06:19 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-13-2014, 09:50 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Rubus - 06-13-2014, 10:22 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Andy - 06-13-2014, 10:45 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-13-2014, 12:16 PM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Andy - 06-13-2014, 12:42 PM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Walhaz - 06-13-2014, 04:11 PM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-13-2014, 08:25 PM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-14-2014, 10:04 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-14-2014, 10:49 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-15-2014, 04:05 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-15-2014, 10:29 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-15-2014, 01:53 PM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-15-2014, 10:17 PM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-16-2014, 05:01 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-16-2014, 07:43 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-16-2014, 07:54 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Vindex - 06-16-2014, 12:07 PM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Walhaz - 06-16-2014, 01:51 PM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Gregg - 06-16-2014, 07:21 PM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-16-2014, 08:10 PM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-16-2014, 08:12 PM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-16-2014, 08:49 PM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Conal - 06-17-2014, 06:12 PM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-18-2014, 12:16 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Andy - 06-18-2014, 05:41 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-18-2014, 02:05 PM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Conal - 06-18-2014, 05:21 PM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-18-2014, 09:56 PM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Conal - 06-22-2014, 09:57 AM
Lorica Hamata being pierced by arrows - by Alanus - 06-23-2014, 10:41 AM

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