06-14-2014, 02:46 PM
Magister Militum Flavius Aetius wrote:
Hi Evan, I don't know too much about draw-weights so you are probably right when you state that not all the steppe peoples you mentioned above had these stronger bows however I think you are overlooking that these peoples' whole lifestyle relied on the bow, for protecting their herds and their families from predators and enemies alike, hunting as well as being quite handy in their seasonal raids on neighbours and enemies. Both western and particularly Chinese sources tell about how their young are trained from childhood with smaller bows to hunt smaller prey like foxes and hares and as soon as they can walk are put on the back of sheep which I must admit would have been funny for their parents watching them try to hang onto a jumping sheep, but over time and after many falls they would learn how to hang on and maintain balance and graduate to stronger and bigger bows and horses and become consumate horse archers who can shoot arrows easily from horseback bringing down enemies and predators alike. If anybody in the ancient world could use the stronger bow for long periods of time to maintain a high rate of fire it would be the steppe horse archer because this was their lifestyle and how they made war and archery was their business which they excelled at, so they were not like most people even in ancient times and comparisons to the present or even ordinary Roman infantrymen are pointless.
The Han used to estimate how big a population a steppe people like the Wusun or Yuehzi contained by the number of horse archers that they could muster and while some would be better equipped and better archers than most others you could bet London to a brick that most of them were pretty accurate and accomplished archers who had a reasonable chance of hitting a target while on a moving horse. It wasn't a hobby or pastime that was done on weekends or on holidays for these guys, they were not weekend warriors or people that needed training in the use of the bow. They just knew and a lifetime of practice ensured that they were good at their trade so to speak.
The horse archers that Surena used at Carrhae were his personal troops from his province, Sacastane far to the East bordering Afghanistan, possibly Saka (as I doubt if Orodes would have given him any troops as it seems he did not like Surena and his family who by right had the privilege of crowning the Parthian king. Orodes probably expected the Romans to defeat Surena's army and do him a favour by removing a possible rival for him), who owed him and his family personal loyalty and according to A.D.H. Bivar used compound bows which the Romans never faced before in the wars against Mithradates, and as history showed, underestimated them and the mobility of an all cavalry army as well as some bad leadership and decisions by Crassus, at least according to Cassius, got quite a shock. I don't know if these bows were any bigger but according to Bivar they made a difference. :?
In regards to the practice of making bows even if they did take time I think that bow making would have been a common practice in most nomad encampments. These people were expert wood turners who knew how to make axles and wheels for their transportation and would have had to cross some pretty rough terrain in these vehicles which would have meant lots of knowledge of the properties and maintenance of different types of wood, so the manufacture of bows would not be difficult for these people. They knew about glues and would have had access to bone and animal sinew from their herds and would have had a knowledge of using the best fibres for bowstrings, probably horse hair etc.
Regards
Michael Kerr
Quote:Yes the Scythians, Parthians, Sarmatians and Huns all had bows with over 100 pound draws, but these weren't common. Why? Well first of all most people can't draw a 100 pound bow more than like an inch. Second of all these were the utmost, top quality bows that took a decade or more to make.
Hi Evan, I don't know too much about draw-weights so you are probably right when you state that not all the steppe peoples you mentioned above had these stronger bows however I think you are overlooking that these peoples' whole lifestyle relied on the bow, for protecting their herds and their families from predators and enemies alike, hunting as well as being quite handy in their seasonal raids on neighbours and enemies. Both western and particularly Chinese sources tell about how their young are trained from childhood with smaller bows to hunt smaller prey like foxes and hares and as soon as they can walk are put on the back of sheep which I must admit would have been funny for their parents watching them try to hang onto a jumping sheep, but over time and after many falls they would learn how to hang on and maintain balance and graduate to stronger and bigger bows and horses and become consumate horse archers who can shoot arrows easily from horseback bringing down enemies and predators alike. If anybody in the ancient world could use the stronger bow for long periods of time to maintain a high rate of fire it would be the steppe horse archer because this was their lifestyle and how they made war and archery was their business which they excelled at, so they were not like most people even in ancient times and comparisons to the present or even ordinary Roman infantrymen are pointless.
The Han used to estimate how big a population a steppe people like the Wusun or Yuehzi contained by the number of horse archers that they could muster and while some would be better equipped and better archers than most others you could bet London to a brick that most of them were pretty accurate and accomplished archers who had a reasonable chance of hitting a target while on a moving horse. It wasn't a hobby or pastime that was done on weekends or on holidays for these guys, they were not weekend warriors or people that needed training in the use of the bow. They just knew and a lifetime of practice ensured that they were good at their trade so to speak.
The horse archers that Surena used at Carrhae were his personal troops from his province, Sacastane far to the East bordering Afghanistan, possibly Saka (as I doubt if Orodes would have given him any troops as it seems he did not like Surena and his family who by right had the privilege of crowning the Parthian king. Orodes probably expected the Romans to defeat Surena's army and do him a favour by removing a possible rival for him), who owed him and his family personal loyalty and according to A.D.H. Bivar used compound bows which the Romans never faced before in the wars against Mithradates, and as history showed, underestimated them and the mobility of an all cavalry army as well as some bad leadership and decisions by Crassus, at least according to Cassius, got quite a shock. I don't know if these bows were any bigger but according to Bivar they made a difference. :?
In regards to the practice of making bows even if they did take time I think that bow making would have been a common practice in most nomad encampments. These people were expert wood turners who knew how to make axles and wheels for their transportation and would have had to cross some pretty rough terrain in these vehicles which would have meant lots of knowledge of the properties and maintenance of different types of wood, so the manufacture of bows would not be difficult for these people. They knew about glues and would have had access to bone and animal sinew from their herds and would have had a knowledge of using the best fibres for bowstrings, probably horse hair etc.
Regards
Michael Kerr
Michael Kerr
"You can conquer an empire from the back of a horse but you can't rule it from one"
"You can conquer an empire from the back of a horse but you can't rule it from one"
