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heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry
Robert, but we don't know much about extreme details of tactics of heavy cavalry from Ancient era. So comparisons to later eras are necessary to create some theories regarding Ancient era.


Quote:and there was not a rank of horsemen before or behind these stunt riders. Also they were not being subject to missile fire (except for the man with a pistol firing blanks). I think a squadron of 100+ men in two ranks galloping at speed, trying to keep knee to knee over imperfect ground would quickly degenerate

Imagine a squadron of two ranks, knee to knee galloping at the charge. One horse in the front rank hits a pothole or is felled by a missile, it goes down, it may take out one or both of the horses on either side, and also one or more horses in the following rank - as they cannot swerve aside because they are hemmed in. Not an efficient way of making a charge - charge knee to knee at the trot, or at the gallop in a more open order.


Quote:A charging unit could initially advance in loose order and close their ranks soon before clashing vs the enemy. Primary sources confirm that Polish-Lithuanian hussars were able to perform such maneuvers.

Just one more comparison to later period:

According to "Taktyka walki, uzbrojenie i wyposażenie husarii w latach 1576-1710" ("Tactics of combats, weaponry and equipment of hussars in period 1576-1710") by Dr. Radosław Sikora, it seems that Polish hussars - when charging with use of long lances and switching to gallop a l'outrance during the last 40 - 50 meters from enemy lines - often charged in just one rank of horsemen, NOT two ranks.

They often followed the mode of attacks depicted below (see pictures) during such combats.

Other ranks of horsemen waited in reserve, while only one rank was engaging the enemy at once. They were replacing each other and charging in turn. After charge and impact, each rank was withdrawing, soon after that another rank was charging.

Only when enemy formation was finally broken, all ranks were charging to help finish off the enemy.

Author of this work only describes this (without illustrations). But this is how I would imagine this:

[Image: walki_husarii2.png]

From the same publication:

When superior enemy forces were attacking and hussars had to give ground, everything was done in similar fashion but each rank was charging in open order so they could pass each other during charges - when one rank was withdrawing, another one was countercharging to delay the enemy advance and cover the retreat of other units - then this rank was withdrawing, while another one countercharged, etc.

Once again no illustrations, but this is how I would imagine this mode of gradual fighting withdrawal:

[Image: walki_husarii3.png]


Quote:According to Raimondo Montecuccoli, Late Medieval (15th - 16th centuries) French knights were ill-disciplined and were switching to gallop a l'outrance speed already 100 steps from enemy - they were losing cohesion and their charges were failures. Cavalry switching to full speed 50 or 60 steps before enemy is less likely to lose cohesion. Also François de la Noue (1531 - 1591) criticized French lancers for lack of capability of maintaining cohesion during charge.

And also Blaise de Montluc (1502 - 1577) wrote about poor quality of training of French lancers.

When it comes mentioned historian Radosław Sikora - according to his works, training and morale were often much more important than weaponry. Sophisticated tactics was also important, but without good training and discipline applying such tactics is impossible, so these factors are related to each other.

Collapse of training, discipline and - as the final result - morale, is also the main reason for the decline of Polish hussars cavalry during the 18th century, according to Dr. Radosław Sikora.

Check also these threads:

http://www.romanarmytalk.com/7-off-topic...=75#336652

http://www.romanarmytalk.com/7-off-topic...=90#342444

http://www.romanarmytalk.com/7-off-topic...tml#331054

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Messages In This Thread
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Desmond - 07-30-2013, 03:46 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Macedon - 07-31-2013, 11:13 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Desmond - 08-01-2013, 07:20 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Frank - 08-01-2013, 03:24 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Macedon - 08-01-2013, 04:05 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Tim - 08-05-2013, 08:15 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Tim - 08-06-2013, 01:44 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 08-06-2013, 06:11 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Vindex - 08-06-2013, 06:17 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Vindex - 08-06-2013, 08:19 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Macedon - 08-08-2013, 04:04 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 08-08-2013, 02:44 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 08-08-2013, 02:44 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Macedon - 08-08-2013, 07:23 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Desmond - 08-09-2013, 06:57 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 08-09-2013, 10:33 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 08-09-2013, 11:41 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 08-09-2013, 11:52 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Vindex - 08-12-2013, 06:46 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 08-15-2013, 03:04 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 08-16-2013, 05:34 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Gesith - 08-16-2013, 04:13 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 08-18-2013, 04:55 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 08-19-2013, 04:32 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 08-24-2013, 06:34 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 08-25-2013, 02:46 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Vindex - 08-26-2013, 08:55 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Vindex - 08-29-2013, 06:41 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Vindex - 08-29-2013, 08:26 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Vindex - 08-29-2013, 04:26 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Vindex - 08-29-2013, 06:52 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 09-02-2013, 10:55 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 09-04-2013, 06:52 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 09-05-2013, 06:26 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 09-05-2013, 06:33 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 09-05-2013, 06:35 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 09-06-2013, 04:52 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 09-21-2013, 09:03 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 09-27-2013, 10:22 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 09-28-2013, 07:42 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 09-28-2013, 09:05 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 10-03-2013, 08:56 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 10-03-2013, 10:19 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Robert - 10-03-2013, 08:57 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 10-03-2013, 10:38 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 10-04-2013, 12:06 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Macedon - 10-04-2013, 11:56 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Macedon - 10-04-2013, 12:00 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Macedon - 10-04-2013, 06:24 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Robert - 10-05-2013, 04:52 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 10-05-2013, 06:34 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 10-05-2013, 06:40 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 10-06-2013, 11:38 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 10-06-2013, 11:38 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 10-06-2013, 07:09 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 10-06-2013, 11:17 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 10-06-2013, 11:54 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 10-07-2013, 08:58 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Robert - 10-08-2013, 11:29 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 10-08-2013, 04:49 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Vindex - 10-09-2013, 07:46 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Macedon - 10-09-2013, 08:21 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Vindex - 10-09-2013, 08:32 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Robert - 10-10-2013, 03:45 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 10-11-2013, 05:32 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 10-11-2013, 07:05 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Macedon - 10-11-2013, 10:30 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Macedon - 10-11-2013, 11:55 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Macedon - 10-11-2013, 12:15 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 10-13-2013, 11:33 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Macedon - 10-13-2013, 09:50 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 10-17-2013, 11:23 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Peter - 11-24-2013, 06:58 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 05-05-2014, 02:51 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 05-05-2014, 03:00 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 05-06-2014, 06:42 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 05-06-2014, 07:06 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 05-07-2014, 12:09 AM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 05-07-2014, 09:18 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 05-07-2014, 10:13 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 05-09-2014, 04:00 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 05-09-2014, 05:59 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 05-11-2014, 12:36 PM
heavy cavalry engaging heavy cavalry - by Alanus - 05-11-2014, 10:11 PM

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