03-12-2011, 05:02 PM
The discussion seems to me to remain semantic to a large (I nearly typed lager! then :lol: ) degree.
I don't think anybody would deny there wasn't any kind of invasion, or series of mini-invasions, or serious incursions - but the issue would seem to me to be how much, how often and over how long a period of time did this migration occur?
There is also this issue of what did migrant Saxons, Jutes, Frisians, Swedes, Franks and Angles find in their immediate wanderings upon arrival. Empty, deserted farmsteads? A smattering of friendly or not (as the case may be) Romano-British remnant groups? Already settled or settling demobbed 'Romano-Germanic' groups? Out and out hostile reactions from the indigenous populace - or maybe a combination of all of these at different times, places and periods? What are the views here about the likely effects of bubonic plague during this period?
It may be that periodic interaction had gone on for quite some time between these differing peoples prior to the 'mass' migration phase. Cultural and linguistic penetration may have been embedded to some extent long before major physical settlement occurred. This was the same issue about the supposed 'Celticness' of 'Celtic' art in Britain. Did it spring fully formed from within these isles or was it merely local reworkings of imported stylings from over a long period of time?
My guess is that there is no standard answer to this. In some areas migrants might have been tacitly accepted, even accommodated (if there was territory to spare) and perhaps cooperated with. In other areas various degrees of rivalry, hostility and conflict clearly occured. If the Saxons had been helping out as Roman recruits/mercenaries for a period prior to all of this then at least some of the native Brits would have been familar with them and perhaps even some alliance or reciprocity developing? There was after all substantial germanisation of Roman legions in some provinces which might have led to a critical mass of 'germans' already in Britain. And they were there supposedly to protect the local population and keep order.
I am merely speculating here to restimulate this topic - but hoping for more colourful discussions without perhaps quite so much of the CSI-Britannica/DNA Saxonicum chemical analysis :lol:
I don't think anybody would deny there wasn't any kind of invasion, or series of mini-invasions, or serious incursions - but the issue would seem to me to be how much, how often and over how long a period of time did this migration occur?
There is also this issue of what did migrant Saxons, Jutes, Frisians, Swedes, Franks and Angles find in their immediate wanderings upon arrival. Empty, deserted farmsteads? A smattering of friendly or not (as the case may be) Romano-British remnant groups? Already settled or settling demobbed 'Romano-Germanic' groups? Out and out hostile reactions from the indigenous populace - or maybe a combination of all of these at different times, places and periods? What are the views here about the likely effects of bubonic plague during this period?
It may be that periodic interaction had gone on for quite some time between these differing peoples prior to the 'mass' migration phase. Cultural and linguistic penetration may have been embedded to some extent long before major physical settlement occurred. This was the same issue about the supposed 'Celticness' of 'Celtic' art in Britain. Did it spring fully formed from within these isles or was it merely local reworkings of imported stylings from over a long period of time?
My guess is that there is no standard answer to this. In some areas migrants might have been tacitly accepted, even accommodated (if there was territory to spare) and perhaps cooperated with. In other areas various degrees of rivalry, hostility and conflict clearly occured. If the Saxons had been helping out as Roman recruits/mercenaries for a period prior to all of this then at least some of the native Brits would have been familar with them and perhaps even some alliance or reciprocity developing? There was after all substantial germanisation of Roman legions in some provinces which might have led to a critical mass of 'germans' already in Britain. And they were there supposedly to protect the local population and keep order.
I am merely speculating here to restimulate this topic - but hoping for more colourful discussions without perhaps quite so much of the CSI-Britannica/DNA Saxonicum chemical analysis :lol:
[size=75:2kpklzm3]Ghostmojo / Howard Johnston[/size]
![[Image: A-TTLGAvatar-1-1.jpg]](http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d162/Ghostmojo/Argus%20-%20TTLG/A-TTLGAvatar-1-1.jpg)
[size=75:2kpklzm3]Xerxes - "What did the guy in the pass say?" ... Scout - "Μολὼν λαβέ my Lord - and he meant it!!!"[/size]
[size=75:2kpklzm3]Xerxes - "What did the guy in the pass say?" ... Scout - "Μολὼν λαβέ my Lord - and he meant it!!!"[/size]
