08-14-2003, 11:30 PM
Avete omnes!<br>
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Magnus, while I agree segmentata are more ornate than some of the extant armors around, we can see that even in the extant record the trend was toward simplification (basing the argument on the extant bits from Kalkriese, Corbridge, and Newstead finds). I would argue that the scarcity of examples may be due to the fact that iron is a recyclable material, and who knows how many of those plates got recycled into coats of plate or brigandines by later groups. And what we have found to date represents but a tiny fraction of the actual produced materiel for the Roman army during the circa 200 years of use we have for these armors.<br>
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I agree you would always set aside time to clean your weapons and armor - God knows I had to clean enough M-16 A1s and M1911A1s to last me a lifetime, and make sure my ALICE gear was ready for inspection or field training as appropriate (and I was merely a cadet in training!). However, modern armies dedicated a disproportionate amount of their daily routine to the spit and polish BECAUSE their soldiers did not have to engage in a lot of tasks that would have been routine for a Legio. They certainly would have been engaged in routine maintenance of their gear - no argument there. Spit and polish, well, probably done for the parade ground, but not while on active campaign (although you probably would find some miles who actually had enough time on his hands now and then). What I'm saying is, don't assume that because a modern would have done this, the ancients would have done the same. That's temporal ethnocentrism, and my anthropology professor would beat us with fustae for making such assumptions ...<br>
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On art - I think you might have missed my point. I agree some Roman art is very life-like and accurate (witness some of what I would call trompe-le-oile frescoes in Pompeii), but it can be equally whimsical at times. My comment on Trajan's Column comes from the fact that even though it is viewed as a chronicle of his military achievements, it is also a very blatant piece of political propaganda. My (perhaps very naive)<br>
approach is to look at the art, it's context, and compare to what we know of the archaelogical record. If they match, cool, I know what my next project's supposed to look like. If not, hmmm, what's wrong here? If I'm confused (which happens a lot) - Centurio!!!!! I'm not trying to "cop out" - I'm trying to leave a few of my own predispositions out of the interpretation.<br>
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By the way, that samurai website is extremely informative. Thank God I don't have the money, 'cause I'd be cutting scales right now!<br>
<br>
Optime Vale<br>
Marius Cornelius Scipio<br>
LEG IX HSPA COH III EXPG CEN I HIB <p></p><i></i>
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Magnus, while I agree segmentata are more ornate than some of the extant armors around, we can see that even in the extant record the trend was toward simplification (basing the argument on the extant bits from Kalkriese, Corbridge, and Newstead finds). I would argue that the scarcity of examples may be due to the fact that iron is a recyclable material, and who knows how many of those plates got recycled into coats of plate or brigandines by later groups. And what we have found to date represents but a tiny fraction of the actual produced materiel for the Roman army during the circa 200 years of use we have for these armors.<br>
<br>
I agree you would always set aside time to clean your weapons and armor - God knows I had to clean enough M-16 A1s and M1911A1s to last me a lifetime, and make sure my ALICE gear was ready for inspection or field training as appropriate (and I was merely a cadet in training!). However, modern armies dedicated a disproportionate amount of their daily routine to the spit and polish BECAUSE their soldiers did not have to engage in a lot of tasks that would have been routine for a Legio. They certainly would have been engaged in routine maintenance of their gear - no argument there. Spit and polish, well, probably done for the parade ground, but not while on active campaign (although you probably would find some miles who actually had enough time on his hands now and then). What I'm saying is, don't assume that because a modern would have done this, the ancients would have done the same. That's temporal ethnocentrism, and my anthropology professor would beat us with fustae for making such assumptions ...<br>
<br>
On art - I think you might have missed my point. I agree some Roman art is very life-like and accurate (witness some of what I would call trompe-le-oile frescoes in Pompeii), but it can be equally whimsical at times. My comment on Trajan's Column comes from the fact that even though it is viewed as a chronicle of his military achievements, it is also a very blatant piece of political propaganda. My (perhaps very naive)<br>
approach is to look at the art, it's context, and compare to what we know of the archaelogical record. If they match, cool, I know what my next project's supposed to look like. If not, hmmm, what's wrong here? If I'm confused (which happens a lot) - Centurio!!!!! I'm not trying to "cop out" - I'm trying to leave a few of my own predispositions out of the interpretation.<br>
<br>
By the way, that samurai website is extremely informative. Thank God I don't have the money, 'cause I'd be cutting scales right now!<br>
<br>
Optime Vale<br>
Marius Cornelius Scipio<br>
LEG IX HSPA COH III EXPG CEN I HIB <p></p><i></i>
