09-16-2010, 08:20 PM
....and a further thought that I expressed some years ago to Paul B. as a fatal objection to 'othismos/pushing' combat is that the officers/leaders stood at the head of each file. Can you imagine the Officer furiously back-pedalling and screaming "NO!NO!" as the grinning file of 'squaddies/GI's' propel him relentlessly on to the waiting spears of their foes?? :lol: :lol:
...unlikelier still, when the file leader/officer is also the respected head of your family/clan, and you are going to have to go home and explain how 'Uncle Cleon' met his end.....
I venture to suggest that you can't "push" against a line of furiously jabbed pointy things/spears - you just can't get close enough to your opponents - and any 'othismos', if it does mean physical pushing, was not done as a co-ordinated phalanx ( it couldn't be - a co-ordinated shove on a 1,000 yard front? ) but rather 'localised', sporadic, and for the most part accidental. Like the 'fighting' riots, what you would see is a line seething and writhing along its front, but trying to maintain all-important cohesion, with sections moving forward, fighting for a minute or two, then drawing apart until one side 'breaks' - remembering that all retreats must start from the rear!!
The "Just one more step and we'll win" cliche attributed to Epaminondas, Iphicrates and others is in reality an exhortation to tired, frightened men to 'hang in there' and grit their teeth - or bite their lip, in the words of Tyrtaeus the Spartan poet, up their aggression, and 'force' their opponents back.....but not by co-ordinated shoving !!
...unlikelier still, when the file leader/officer is also the respected head of your family/clan, and you are going to have to go home and explain how 'Uncle Cleon' met his end.....
I venture to suggest that you can't "push" against a line of furiously jabbed pointy things/spears - you just can't get close enough to your opponents - and any 'othismos', if it does mean physical pushing, was not done as a co-ordinated phalanx ( it couldn't be - a co-ordinated shove on a 1,000 yard front? ) but rather 'localised', sporadic, and for the most part accidental. Like the 'fighting' riots, what you would see is a line seething and writhing along its front, but trying to maintain all-important cohesion, with sections moving forward, fighting for a minute or two, then drawing apart until one side 'breaks' - remembering that all retreats must start from the rear!!
The "Just one more step and we'll win" cliche attributed to Epaminondas, Iphicrates and others is in reality an exhortation to tired, frightened men to 'hang in there' and grit their teeth - or bite their lip, in the words of Tyrtaeus the Spartan poet, up their aggression, and 'force' their opponents back.....but not by co-ordinated shoving !!
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
