The "Fred thread": the Argead Macedonian Army

[MeinPanzer]

My point is that I don't think, even as a stop-gap, a shield that could not be used once the sarissa was lost/useless would be acceptable. One major force in warfare is making men feel protected, even when they are not. This would be a big morale problem. As I said, it is a worthy idea, but I think in the end the mechanics are against it. No shame here. I've been there many times myself :wink:

I still think some explanation needs to be made for the statements that Cleomenes taught his men to use ochane instead of porpax (ochane and telamon are interchangeable - I'm pretty sure Plutarch calls the straps in use at Pydna telamones) and that Philopoemen equipped his men with Argive shields. This just seems to me like the most likely answer.

That's where you lose me. I'm not sure what you are envisioning here. If the elbow is to the right of the porpax, then you can do anything with the shield that you could do if it were not there. The only way it would be a problem is if you were somehow attempting to actually roll your back into the shield or if you extended your arm straight out it might hit your tricep. You can stand with your whole body in the shield as long as the porpax is to the left of the elbow.

This would obviously have to be tested, but I was thinking that the porpax would jut into the phalangite's side while maneuvering with the sarissa when the shield moved up or down.

I think you overestimate the cost of making more suitable wooden shields and simply cutting the bronze to fit, but on that point we can simply disagree. In any case, the measure would have been unneeded after his invasion of Megalopololitan territory (Plut. Cleom. 12.2). You can build a lot of peltae for the cost of one Messenian theatre.

For a few hundred men, the cost might not have been too much, but when it reaches the thousands, the increase in cost would have been significant. One of the only solid sources we have for the price of contemporary arms and armour comes from a 3rd c. BC inscription discovered on Keos which lists modest prizes provided to victors in athletic contests (IG XII, 5, 647). A bow costs 7 dr, a quiver 8 dr, a longche (whether spearhead or entire spear) 3 and a third obols, a kontos 2 dr, a helmet 7 dr, and a shield 20 dr. If the kontos is a weapon (as it seems from its association with these other pieces of equipment), then it would suggest that a long shafted weapon was not nearly comparable in price to a shield. Based on our knowledge of the price of arms, it would have cost roughly 10 dr to equip a man with helmet and spear, but double that to add a shield, so if they could be provided for cheaply by only spending money on a few leather straps and some nails, it would have been much more economical.

But just as Cleomenes undoubtedly equipped his phalanx better after the reform got off the ground, it should be noted as well that regardless of the arms in use soon after Philopoemen's reform, within about 20 years they were equipped with top-of-the-line equipment by Ptolemy V, who sent 6,000 "peltasts' panoplies" to the Achaean league.