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The last Italian emperor ?
#12
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Theodosius the Great:1tqs189d Wrote:Interesting theory. I have an alternate theory based on another parallel : maybe Italy was returning to the top because the other western provinces were falling away at the same time ?
But were the western provinces falling away? I do not know the answer; it is just a question - this period is murky. Probably, Robert has something intelligent to say.
Well, I'll try to be coherent..
The western provinces never ‘fell away’ I think.

Britain was given up for all we know, but maybe not right away in 410. Anyway, it seems like it was never fully recovered afterwards.

Gaul was never given up, but at some point there was a ‘final rebellion’ when the Gallic nobles refused to recognise the ‘Greek’ Anthemius. The Gallic field army never became part of the Roman army again and was finally incorporated into the Frankish army.
Of course, that’s our idea about the matter, I’m sure that lots of people on the ground saw it as a power struggle and never saw Clovis as a Frankish king – maybe the Gallo-Romans saw him as yet another magister militum.
Burgundy was given to barbarian allies, but remained part of the empire.
In the south, Gothic troops (technically still Roman armies) vied with Burgundians over control.

Germania was never given up. The lower part (us) was maybe depopulated and maybe given over to barbarian allies rather than being overrun or evacuated. But after the late 3rd c. there may have been few people who lived there and cared. The upper part was settled with lots of allies and saw many armies go in and out, but it remained Roman. The last ruler recognised Clovis and became a bishop – a wise move.

Spain seems to have been devoid of troops at some point, after which Suebian brigands could see their way to take over much of the province apart from Tarragonensis. They never pretended to be Roman subjects. Of course, one Gothic king got mad at them and trounced them in one battle, replacing them as the power there.

Italy was never a ‘Gothic kingdom’ before the 6th c (when Belisarius had reconquered most of the peninsula). Theodoric and all after him carefully named themselves ‘king of the Goths’, and never ‘king of Italy’, ruling the Italians as Romans under Roman law, seeking recognition from Constantinople.
Robert Vermaat
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FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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Messages In This Thread
Re: The last Italian emperor ? - by Epictetus - 08-31-2009, 11:44 AM
Re: The last Italian emperor ? - by Epictetus - 09-03-2009, 11:33 AM
Re: The last Italian emperor ? - by Robert Vermaat - 09-05-2009, 08:04 PM

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