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Recreating a Greek Cavalryman
#9
I suspect I need to explore the nature and typology of long shafted weapons in greater depth. I have spent little time on it.
A quick internet search did indeed show that cornel was a dense wood. Thank you for the information. Apparently it can be so dense it can even sink in water. This re-enforces the premise that a cornel shaft could be thinner than an ash shaft. Indeed descriptions of the material seem to always lead to the words, long slender stems. Very reed-like.

The detail on vases can be impressive, especially compared to Roman grave steles. A cursory examination of several books over breakfast enabled me to find tampered hunting javelins, spears, long cavalry spears etc. I suspect many re-enactors, myself included, generally just use simple parallel-sided shafts. They are easier to source. I shave down all my shafts, which involves some work. But I have never even considered tampering them. Until now.

I tried very hard to avoid specific weapon terminology and classifications. While the ancients use names and loosely and inclusively, we use them to classify, specify and exclude. But I do appreciate they can help define a discussion, so “here goes”.

I read in Sekunda that the kamax or reed “was a nickname given first to long, thin vine-poles, and then to the long, thin cavalry spears which looked like them.” Panaitos carries a fine example, tampered with a large sauroter. This “lance” would be ideal for cavalry, with a point of balance well towards the rear.

As an aside what do we make of the Great Melos Amphora, probably from Italy, also from around 400-390 BC? I suspect the depiction of the weaponry may be limited to the artistic composition. But one cavalry spear stands out as been around 2m long, with a large counter weight.

[attachment=0:33pd112h]<!-- ia0 Great Melos Amphora cavalry spear 1.jpg<!-- ia0 [/attachment:33pd112h]

Xenophon states the long reed spear is weak and awkward to carry. If you carry a long spear along with one or two javelins it is difficult to carry. But by itself it’s easy enough. He recommends two darts of cornel wood, one to throw and one to use in all directions as a reserve. He says these smaller weapons are more manageable and stronger. Hence my choice of two general purpose javelins/spears in the photos, around 1.8m long, called the palta. However I’m not sure how many cavalry chose to arm themselves in accordance with Xenophon’s recommendation. Such a weapon combination, with a kopis, seems almost Persian, and Xenophon’s Persian travels are well known.

In 50 years time some Macedonian will hit me with a 4m xyston. I do wonder if the xyston was really so long? Did it really need to be any longer than the kamax? After Pyrrhus I’ll be changing from the xyston to the shield and shorter spear/javelin.

I would like to examine the references for the xyston being untapered. The Issus mosaic? Surely mosaics cannot be trusted to show the same degree of detail as a good vase painting? I would like to learn more on the subject.

The spearhead I described in the article is mounted on a 30cm diameter ash shaft, with a ferule, the weapon being 250cm long in total. This is around 24cm too short for the perceived length of a kamax. The length was dictated by my limited supply of ash. It’s a fine weapon, light and easy to use. The shaft is a little tampered to allow the spearhead to fit flush with the shaft.

I think at sometime in the future I would like to consider how the 2m light javelin spear/palta, 3m spear/ kamax or 4m lance/xyston was used in hand to hand combat. Briefly in an open space speed is everything and you can land a blow on the pass. But when in a tight stationary situation two handed blows and parries, as well as using the spear held against the body to sweep from side to side, come into their own. From my own experience at training I know I chose a 3m light spear to hit with, and a 2m heavier spear to parry with. But this is for another time.
John Conyard

York

A member of Comitatus Late Roman
Reconstruction Group

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.comitatus.net">http://www.comitatus.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.historicalinterpretations.net">http://www.historicalinterpretations.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com">http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com
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Messages In This Thread
Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by John Conyard - 07-04-2009, 04:24 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by MeinPanzer - 07-05-2009, 10:29 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by John Conyard - 07-06-2009, 09:03 AM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Kineas - 07-06-2009, 02:45 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Kineas - 07-06-2009, 08:37 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by nikolaos - 07-07-2009, 05:13 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by nikolaos - 07-07-2009, 11:23 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by nikolaos - 07-08-2009, 12:00 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Dan Howard - 10-05-2009, 10:11 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Dan Howard - 10-06-2009, 12:32 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Magnus - 10-08-2009, 09:01 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Dain II. - 10-13-2009, 10:21 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Dan Howard - 10-14-2009, 09:20 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Ammianus - 04-26-2010, 06:26 AM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Astiryu1 - 06-27-2010, 02:53 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Kineas - 09-27-2011, 06:39 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Ammianus - 10-14-2011, 01:44 AM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Ammianus - 10-14-2011, 01:51 AM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Ammianus - 10-14-2011, 01:57 AM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Ammianus - 10-14-2011, 02:57 AM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Caballo - 10-14-2011, 12:11 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Kineas - 10-14-2011, 07:56 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Kineas - 10-15-2011, 12:06 AM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Kineas - 10-15-2011, 12:29 AM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Ammianus - 10-16-2011, 12:01 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Mithras - 10-18-2011, 02:44 AM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Mithras - 10-18-2011, 02:47 AM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Cheyenne - 10-18-2011, 03:57 AM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Ammianus - 10-18-2011, 11:36 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Vindex - 12-12-2011, 11:28 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Jvrjenivs - 12-13-2011, 01:43 AM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by garrelt - 12-13-2011, 02:42 AM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by garrelt - 12-13-2011, 04:04 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Ammianus - 12-13-2011, 04:22 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Ammianus - 12-13-2011, 07:12 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by garrelt - 12-14-2011, 02:53 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Ammianus - 02-29-2012, 11:18 PM
Re: Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by Ammianus - 03-01-2012, 02:16 PM
Recreating a Greek Cavalryman - by John Conyard - 01-01-2013, 03:00 AM

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