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That "homosexual" Achilles
#11
Quote:It is always hard for us to separate ourselves from our modern viewpoint, partly because we don't sufficiently inform ourselves of the ancient viewpoint.

I agree that there is great danger in assessing these relationships because of the cultural baggage we carry, but it works in the reverse as well. Many are quick to see homosexual coupling, as opposed to homoerotic bonding, a very different thing, precisely because homoeroticism is frowned upon in our culture. Better we stick with the ancient sources. Two of our best are very clear on the subject. Xenophon says that most greeks won't believe it, but the relationship between "lovers" at Sparta was ideally (i.e. officially) platonic. "he caused lovers to abstain from boys no less than parents abstain from sexual intercourse with their children and brothers and sisters with each other. (X.Lac Const. 2.4)" Most modern scholars turn this into Xenophon trying to cover up the true sexual relationships, but given his acceptance of them in other poleis and his discussion of Agiselaos' infatuation in Asia with a boy, I have yet to read a convincing arguement. Aristotle, no laconophile, goes on at length about just how non-homosexual the Spartans were. He laments it in fact, for if they were more homosexual like the Celtoi the virtual Gynocracy he decries would not have power. Lampito knew just what she was doing. :wink:


You notice I said above that in was "Officially platonic". That is because sex surely occurred in individual cases. There is no relationship on earth, including parental, where the opportunity has not been exploited by some for sex. I know of few commentators who have opined that altar boys exist to form homosexual bonds with priests (and through semen transfer become men!) yet we see that this develops frequently. The problem is not that they engaged in homosexual acts, it is that by relegating the Spartan espnelas to simply a man seeking sex we loose far too much of the institution and its meaning. I think just as they were expected to be discreet with their new brides, Spartans were expected to abstain from this type of sex. That they may not have on an individual basis is another matter entirely.
Paul M. Bardunias
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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Messages In This Thread
That "homosexual" Achilles - by Jona Lendering - 05-05-2009, 08:01 PM
Re: That "homosexual" Achilles - by M. Demetrius - 05-05-2009, 11:27 PM
Re: That "homosexual" Achilles - by Epictetus - 05-06-2009, 05:18 AM
Re: That "homosexual" Achilles - by PMBardunias - 05-06-2009, 03:55 PM
Re: That "homosexual" Achilles - by geala - 05-07-2009, 08:10 AM
Re: That "homosexual" Achilles - by Paralus - 05-07-2009, 01:28 PM
Re: That "homosexual" Achilles - by M. Demetrius - 05-07-2009, 02:58 PM
Re: That "homosexual" Achilles - by PMBardunias - 05-07-2009, 03:32 PM
Re: That "homosexual" Achilles - by Celtic505 - 05-21-2009, 08:14 PM
Re: That "homosexual" Achilles - by Paralus - 05-22-2009, 10:34 AM
Re: That "homosexual" Achilles - by PMBardunias - 05-22-2009, 08:11 PM
Re: That "homosexual" Achilles - by Paralus - 05-22-2009, 11:38 PM
Re: That "homosexual" Achilles - by PMBardunias - 05-23-2009, 02:00 AM
Re: That "homosexual" Achilles - by Paralus - 05-23-2009, 02:21 AM
Re: That "homosexual" Achilles - by tsafa - 05-29-2009, 06:35 AM
Re: That "homosexual" Achilles - by Dan D'Silva - 05-30-2009, 01:00 PM
Re: That "homosexual" Achilles - by geala - 06-23-2009, 02:41 PM

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