03-11-2009, 03:54 PM
I am well aware of blackened medieval and Renaissance armor, and have worn it myself. It's completely irrelevant to a discussion on Roman armor.
Yes, surviving Roman helmets are dark, because they are mostly rust with modern coatings to stabilize them. I do not think that is evidence that they were dark originally.
There are reproductions of inlaid pugio scabbards with a dark iron/steel background, but I think those are wrong, and that the originals were polished originally. Niello was certainly used, but as an inlaid design. Can anyone document its use as a background? If so, that still does not count as evidence for blackened or blued iron!
Sean likes to bring up his blued loricae that got left out in a rainstorm, but one of *my* legionaries was there, and placed a shield over them so they wouldn't get soaked. Apparently, they showed about as much rust afterward as well-oiled bare steel. Lorica plates chafe against each other, and the darkened surface will be abraded away pretty quickly wherever that happens. Any rust which does develop has to be removed, which will also remove more darkened surface. So what you are really advocating here is a bizarre patchwork appearance! In addition, I completely disagree that darkened armor shines like the descriptions in Roman literature, and yes, I've seen the photos of it. If you have to oil or grease it so much to get even that much gleam, why bother with having it darkened in the first place?
I firmly believe that iron was left forge-blackened on the INside of armor and helmets. I also believe that pilum heads, arrowheads, ballista bolt points, and probably even many spearheads were left forge-blackened.
As I said, we've been over all of this repeatedly, and it's all pointless speculation. I can indeed discount any theory of Romans darkening their armor, because there is *no evidence* for it. We have LOTS of evidence for bright and shiny armor, however, so that's what we go with. Simple.
Valete,
Matthew
Yes, surviving Roman helmets are dark, because they are mostly rust with modern coatings to stabilize them. I do not think that is evidence that they were dark originally.
There are reproductions of inlaid pugio scabbards with a dark iron/steel background, but I think those are wrong, and that the originals were polished originally. Niello was certainly used, but as an inlaid design. Can anyone document its use as a background? If so, that still does not count as evidence for blackened or blued iron!
Sean likes to bring up his blued loricae that got left out in a rainstorm, but one of *my* legionaries was there, and placed a shield over them so they wouldn't get soaked. Apparently, they showed about as much rust afterward as well-oiled bare steel. Lorica plates chafe against each other, and the darkened surface will be abraded away pretty quickly wherever that happens. Any rust which does develop has to be removed, which will also remove more darkened surface. So what you are really advocating here is a bizarre patchwork appearance! In addition, I completely disagree that darkened armor shines like the descriptions in Roman literature, and yes, I've seen the photos of it. If you have to oil or grease it so much to get even that much gleam, why bother with having it darkened in the first place?
I firmly believe that iron was left forge-blackened on the INside of armor and helmets. I also believe that pilum heads, arrowheads, ballista bolt points, and probably even many spearheads were left forge-blackened.
As I said, we've been over all of this repeatedly, and it's all pointless speculation. I can indeed discount any theory of Romans darkening their armor, because there is *no evidence* for it. We have LOTS of evidence for bright and shiny armor, however, so that's what we go with. Simple.
Valete,
Matthew
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
