The Votadini exodus to Wales

[Robert Vermaat]

Exactly when did the Votadini exodus to Wales, anyway? Perhaps the answer is unknowable, but a rough guess would be interesting to hear. :?:

A good one, aka 'the can of worms'.

Well, here we go.
First of all, there is the Historia Brittonum (9th c.), which claims (chapter 62) that Cunedda migrated to Wales 146 years before Mealgwn reigned.
Ah, I hear you say, let's dated Maelgwn and we have a date! (I would be flattered, but I'd have to turn you down). :wink:
Dating Maelgwn would be equally hazardoes. The (10th- c.) Annales Cambriae claim his death in 547, but that's open to discussion, because the entry itself is suspect. It was almost certainly copied from the earlier Chronicle of Ireland, which originally mentioned a list of Leinster names (not Maglocunus). The Welsh copyist may have had authority to substitute these names, but this is unknown to us. If not, the whole entry is false and any discussion bound to be useless. If we nonetheless accept the date but compare it with Badon (516), it follows that the resulting publishing date for Gildas would be too late, so one of the two is wrong.

Anyway, that's the death of Maelgwn, and we want to accession date, which no-one is providing us with. Gildas tells us that Mealgwn ousted his uncle (and I take that he meant that this was the moment when he took the throne as well) 'While still a youth', probably his early 20s. Date-guessing the floruit of Maelgwn is however even more hazardoes, because if we use the (12th c. and later) pedigrees of the kings of Gwynedd, it's easy to see that usual '30 years to a generation' brings us into trouble with date-guessing (which is, unlike the name suggests, not a game for girls concerning who they bring to the prom 8) ).
We know for instance that Maelgwn's great-grandson Iacob (Iago) died in the battle of Chester (c. 613), and Iago’s grandson Cadwallon died c. 633. If we reckon back, taking the usual 30 years to a generation, this would mean that Maglocunus died c. 484... It is clear that kings can live to 80 or rule for 40 years, or die within months - the 'golden average' will elude us if we do not know the facts, and date-guessing is practically useless when no corroborating evidence exists.
Mealgwn’s floruit could range from about 440 to 530. But don't pin me down on that.

We have similar problem with the 'Cunedda statement'. Cunedda is named as the atavus, which strictly means ‘great- great- great- grandfather’, or rather more simply ‘ancestor’. In most pedigrees, Cunedda is only the great-grandfather of Maglocunus. But Cunedda was already of advanced age when he came to Wales, his sons being old enough to fight battles. If we should date Mealgwn‘s death to AD 547 (but see above), it would imply that Cunedda’s obit is dated to AD 390x400, or else to AD 447x457, and this would put Cunedda's migration in the time of Magnus Maximus.

Other interpretations have dated Cunedda’s migration to AD 401 or even AD 429, acting together with St.Germanus.