09-26-2008, 05:58 AM
The title is "Iolo Manuscripts," by Taliesin Williams, Iolo Morganwg, Thomas Price, Owen Jones, Society for the Publication of Ancient Welsh Manuscripts, W. Rees, London, 1848.
The facsimile of the manuscript handwriting is on page 90. The reason I originally consulted it was to get grit on the family of Meurig ap Tewdrig. All the old-time historians thought he was Uther Pendragon, which he was... sort of. I needed a reference to quote for a book I'm writing. These old pedigrees are a horror-show, with all eleventy-seven daughters marrying everyone except Kaiser Wilhelm. But the strange thing is that once in awhile, they give good grit that even a good faker like Iolo couldn't dream up in his worst Celtic nightmare.
On another thread, Roots-Web, I found John Rieth (Riothamus) married to a "Miss of Ireland... or... a daughter of Uther Pendragon's grandfather." How inextricably odd! :wink: Because it could very well be correct. The Iolo progression, as well as most others, runs as Maurig ap Tewdrig ap Theithfallt. In that light, Theithfallt's daughter as John Rieth's wife makes him the brother-in-law of Tewdrig, whom I think was Arthur... not Riothamus as Geoffrey Ashe claims.
These old writers hit paydirt once in awhile, even when they didn't know it. Back in 1795, David Williams claimed that Maurig's son Athruis took the appellation of Arthwyr, or the "Bear Exalted." Two hundred years later, Mike Ashley claimed that Arthwyr meant "grandson of the Bear." I checked it out through the Department of Welsh, University of Wales, Lampester. Sure enough, Ashley was correct... but he never realized the significance.
Athruis was riding on his grandfather's coat-tails, using the Bear connection for all it was worth. I've followed this implication back to Rev. Williams, then Whitaker, to what I think is the source-- Thomas Carte in 1747. Hopefully I have a microfilm of his volume coming through Inter Library.
Athruis was the son of Mauric, the grandson of Tewdrig/Theodoric. And this paints Theodoric as the Bear, in other words Arthur. The original Uther Pendragon (Ufar pandracon-- commander of the dragonmen) would be Theithfallt (Thieudebalth)... whom I think arrived in Britain as a Roman officer. This is just a theory; but the quirky and oft goofy pedigrees sometimes have a grain of truth hidden in all those lurid generations. If you collect all the info found in Iolo, Ashe, Wilson & Blackett, Barber & Pickett, or whomever has written an off-the-wall Arthurian book, the implications are there. Yet nobody put it all together.
Did I just put myself into the space-shot catagory? :roll: And of course, this has little to do with the Gododdin. Which reminds me-- was Cunedda related to that tribe?
Best and better,
Alanus, A.J. Campbell
The facsimile of the manuscript handwriting is on page 90. The reason I originally consulted it was to get grit on the family of Meurig ap Tewdrig. All the old-time historians thought he was Uther Pendragon, which he was... sort of. I needed a reference to quote for a book I'm writing. These old pedigrees are a horror-show, with all eleventy-seven daughters marrying everyone except Kaiser Wilhelm. But the strange thing is that once in awhile, they give good grit that even a good faker like Iolo couldn't dream up in his worst Celtic nightmare.
On another thread, Roots-Web, I found John Rieth (Riothamus) married to a "Miss of Ireland... or... a daughter of Uther Pendragon's grandfather." How inextricably odd! :wink: Because it could very well be correct. The Iolo progression, as well as most others, runs as Maurig ap Tewdrig ap Theithfallt. In that light, Theithfallt's daughter as John Rieth's wife makes him the brother-in-law of Tewdrig, whom I think was Arthur... not Riothamus as Geoffrey Ashe claims.
These old writers hit paydirt once in awhile, even when they didn't know it. Back in 1795, David Williams claimed that Maurig's son Athruis took the appellation of Arthwyr, or the "Bear Exalted." Two hundred years later, Mike Ashley claimed that Arthwyr meant "grandson of the Bear." I checked it out through the Department of Welsh, University of Wales, Lampester. Sure enough, Ashley was correct... but he never realized the significance.
Athruis was riding on his grandfather's coat-tails, using the Bear connection for all it was worth. I've followed this implication back to Rev. Williams, then Whitaker, to what I think is the source-- Thomas Carte in 1747. Hopefully I have a microfilm of his volume coming through Inter Library.
Athruis was the son of Mauric, the grandson of Tewdrig/Theodoric. And this paints Theodoric as the Bear, in other words Arthur. The original Uther Pendragon (Ufar pandracon-- commander of the dragonmen) would be Theithfallt (Thieudebalth)... whom I think arrived in Britain as a Roman officer. This is just a theory; but the quirky and oft goofy pedigrees sometimes have a grain of truth hidden in all those lurid generations. If you collect all the info found in Iolo, Ashe, Wilson & Blackett, Barber & Pickett, or whomever has written an off-the-wall Arthurian book, the implications are there. Yet nobody put it all together.
Did I just put myself into the space-shot catagory? :roll: And of course, this has little to do with the Gododdin. Which reminds me-- was Cunedda related to that tribe?
Best and better,
Alanus, A.J. Campbell
Alan J. Campbell
member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians
Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians
Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
