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Macedonians used leather helmets?
#24
Quote:...to which those scholars would suggest Polyaenus was being anachronistic, and point to the fact that the same incident (Memnon's near capture of Cyzicus) is referred to by Diodorus (XVII.7.8 ) with nary a mention of Macedonian caps/kausia :lol: :lol:
...at least we agree virtually everything is debateable !! 8)

I would disagree because Diodorus was not discussing tactics while Polyaenus was, yadda yadda yadda, but then that debate comes to an end. Nonetheless, this is not germane to the topic at hand. The main point is that you stated that in that passage of Cassius Dio, there is some reason to believe that some of the items he lists as being used by Alexander's phalangites are inaccurate. So, getting to the core of the issue, let's deal with these items one by one.

The first two, the "helmet of raw ox-hide" and the "three-ply linen breastplate" the archaeological record is silent about and the evidence from the literary record is scant and of little help. However, if the former is taken to be referring to the kausia, which is possible, then it is fairly clear. The "Garland of Philip" by Antipater calls the kausia a "helmet in war" and mentions it as being "from olden times the Macedonian's comfortable gear." The personified kausia itself further declares "I come from Emathia," the ancient heart of the Macedonian state in which the capital was located.

The bronze shield (aspis chalke) is fairly straightforward. Asclepiodotus (5.1) describes the phalangite shield as "bronze, eight palms (~24 inches) in diameter, and not too concave"- notice that despite the fact that he is writing a technical manual, he states nothing of the wooden backing. (BTW, I received your PM about Asclepiodotus and I was going to respond to you but I had to do a number of things; I'll shoot you a PM shortly.) Other finds of actual coverings for Macedonian shields are likewise bronze.

Long pike is straightforward.

Short spear is somewhat controversial, but nonetheless there is a body of literary evidence to support it. The archaeological record is, as far as I am aware, silent on the issue because we simply don't have any confirmed finds of complete phalangite panoplies.

Krepides, of whatever form they may have been, are recognized as being distinctly Macedonian. The literary record presents us with the excerpt of Plutarch above as well as the description in Theocritus (15.1) as the Ptolemaic troops in Alexandria being "all krepides, all chlamus-wearing men," and archaeological evidence shows Macedonians wearing sturdy high boots, whether they be of open sandalwork or leather.

Sword is straightforward.

So, what we have is a few areas in which the archaeological and literary records are silent for the most part, whereas the rest are either verified or at least suggested to be true. Therefore, this lends some credence to the use of leather headgear by Macedonians as well as linen cuirasses.

Quote:So you would define 'krepides' as any ( thick-soled?)footwear worn by a soldier? In that case how can all these different styles of footwear be distinctly Macedonian? ....same question if the word changed meaning.....

According to the ancient evidence, yes. How can they be distinctly Macedonian? They aren't unique to the Macedonians, but as a part of the trio of krepides, chlamus, and kausia they are distinctly Macedonian. Much like the Macedonian shield is distinctively Macedonian when combined with the sarissa, even though we find it being employed by various other peoples in different capacities.

Quote:Isn't that Lion-Hunting scene one of the main arguments (artistically) for the tomb being that of Philip Arrhidaeus ( Alexander's half-brother), thus after Alexander......

Boy, are we getting off-topic here! Sad Confused

But would you call those krepides? The men wear kausiai and Macedonian chlamudes and the boots are all literally the exact same high openwork sandals that are seen on the Agios Athanasios tomb paintings (even down to the gap at the top between the top of the sandalwork and the top of the sock) and are very similar to the boots worn by the Macedonian troops on the Alexander sarcophagus who wear footwear.
Ruben

He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
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Messages In This Thread
LEATHER HELMET - by Graham Sumner - 06-20-2008, 03:16 PM
Macedonian Leather Helmet - by Paullus Scipio - 06-20-2008, 10:29 PM
Re: Macedonian Leather Helmet - by MeinPanzer - 06-21-2008, 03:53 PM
Macedonian Leather Helmets? - by Paullus Scipio - 06-21-2008, 09:38 PM
Macedonian Leather Helmets? - by Paullus Scipio - 06-21-2008, 09:57 PM
Re: Macedonian Leather Helmets? - by MeinPanzer - 06-21-2008, 10:09 PM
Macedonian Leather Helmet? - by Paullus Scipio - 06-21-2008, 11:57 PM
Macedonian Leather Helmets - by Paullus Scipio - 06-22-2008, 11:22 AM
Re: Macedonian Leather Helmets - by MeinPanzer - 06-22-2008, 12:53 PM
Macedonian Leather Helmets? - by Paullus Scipio - 06-22-2008, 02:07 PM
Re: Macedonian \'Leather\' helmets? - by MeinPanzer - 06-22-2008, 03:05 PM
Macedonian Leather Helmet? - by Paullus Scipio - 06-22-2008, 10:28 PM
Makedonian Leather Helmet? - by Paullus Scipio - 06-23-2008, 04:02 AM

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