Defences of the western Roman empire in 5th century

[Theodosius the Great]

Indeed! Late Antique source are very good at exaggerating as I've written a few years ago when comparing Gildas to continental sources when it came to the 'destruction' of Roman society.

Thanks for the link, Robert, I will read up on it

Incidentally, Peter Heather does not believe the Vandals came to Africa by the invitation of Boniface. He believes this is just supposition on the part of the 6th century historian, Procopius.

Which is his good right of course, but I think he can't prove Procopius wrong.

I haven't formed an opinion yet but just to elaborate a bit : Heather thinks the timing of such a supposed invitation from Boniface is suspicious. He says it makes no sense to invite the Vandals because by 429, Boniface had already reconciled himself with the Emperor - so, there's no apparent motivation for the treachery in his view. Anyway, it's a side issue.

Exactly! That's the point I was trying to make. From the late 4th c. onwards everyone had noticed that the 'man behind the throne' could be more powerful than the guy on the throne himself. And, that anyone could get the position regardless of birth.

Only in the late 5th c. we see that even that position is not tempting enough when Gundobad the Burgundian rather takes the job of king at home rather than first man in Rome. For me that's the real Fall of Rome embodied.

Interesting, thanks for making it crystal clear I'd like to read up on Gundobad the Burgundian.

Fabiano,

Indeed, an invasion fleet (lot's of transporting ships) is a very different thing than a patrol fleet. But in the years after the invasion of africa, the vandals lauched several naval expeditions of pillage, without being disturb. Maybe the roman fleet (if it stil existed?), wasn't big enouth to do much more than defend against a couple of pirates ships.

I've found a modern estimate of the situation. According to Peter Heather : in the 460s the whole of the Western Empire could raise no more than 300 ships and that it took the combined resources of both empires to assemble 1,000 ships. This is relevant to the thread so I thought I should post it.

~Theo