03-02-2008, 11:19 AM
Yes, I agree with Ian about burning of crops. Burning add nutrients, and leaving the soil for a year or two actually increases the fertility!
Indeed, Thrace might not be the best example, as propaganda seems to play a part there - Thrace was never depopulated like the German provinces, to make a comparison.
So the Vandals attacked the towns and did not destory the crops. Like I said, doing the latter would have ensured their own starvation. And maybe the African provinces had not had the pleasure of dealing with Germanic foes before the gates, but they had their share of hillfolk and desert raiders (to speak in RTW terms), especially the berbers were a pain in the neck from time to time. It seems that the African town were well-defended, but no town can outlast a determined siege.
Aetius was of course a Roman, and so was Stilicho, but even Roman commanders knew what to do when the troops wanted to have a good plunder. And Roman troops could be very comparable to non-Roman troops when it came to that. Remember good old Postumes, who was killed after attempting to withold his Roman troops from sacking Mogontiacum/Mainz?
Foederate kingdoms became independent states, that's true, but now you're using your twenty-twenty hindsight. :wink: Foederati served the Roman very well for centuries, and many federates behaved very well for more than a century before (almost hesitant at times) the decided there was no more central government to serve. True, that behaviour, especially in the West where Goths and Vandals (and increasingly Burgundians) are concerned was surely chipping away at the Roman state. But my point is that you evidently cannot say that "federates were bent on become independent states". Their behavious is often directly comparable to warring Roman ussurpers, all within a Roman politicaal acceptable frame, but extremely violent nontheless. But it's the end result that makes us look differently at the federates in the West. In the East, similar federates never became independent, and they are judged differently.
Indeed, Thrace might not be the best example, as propaganda seems to play a part there - Thrace was never depopulated like the German provinces, to make a comparison.
So the Vandals attacked the towns and did not destory the crops. Like I said, doing the latter would have ensured their own starvation. And maybe the African provinces had not had the pleasure of dealing with Germanic foes before the gates, but they had their share of hillfolk and desert raiders (to speak in RTW terms), especially the berbers were a pain in the neck from time to time. It seems that the African town were well-defended, but no town can outlast a determined siege.
Aetius was of course a Roman, and so was Stilicho, but even Roman commanders knew what to do when the troops wanted to have a good plunder. And Roman troops could be very comparable to non-Roman troops when it came to that. Remember good old Postumes, who was killed after attempting to withold his Roman troops from sacking Mogontiacum/Mainz?
Foederate kingdoms became independent states, that's true, but now you're using your twenty-twenty hindsight. :wink: Foederati served the Roman very well for centuries, and many federates behaved very well for more than a century before (almost hesitant at times) the decided there was no more central government to serve. True, that behaviour, especially in the West where Goths and Vandals (and increasingly Burgundians) are concerned was surely chipping away at the Roman state. But my point is that you evidently cannot say that "federates were bent on become independent states". Their behavious is often directly comparable to warring Roman ussurpers, all within a Roman politicaal acceptable frame, but extremely violent nontheless. But it's the end result that makes us look differently at the federates in the West. In the East, similar federates never became independent, and they are judged differently.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
