02-15-2008, 12:42 AM
Personally, like the majority of scholars, I believe the Boeotian peltophoroi were undoubtedly 'armed in the Macedonian fashion', and that this term was used quite possibly because original-style peltastai were conceivably still around ( though that is very doubtful, bearing in mind they had become thureophoroi, or more likely, someone simply used that term to avoid potential confusion........ ( which afflicts us moderns 
) )
Also, I am wondering if some of our discusion is the result of slightly different meanings we place on the word 'phalanx'?
When Inaki says that Peltasts were not part of the 'phalanx', and I say they were, I believe we are using 'phalanx' in slightly different ways.
I think ( correct me if I am wrong) that Inaki means 'Line Infantry' when he says 'phalanx', and it is correct that they are not 'Line Infantry', but rather an elite guard unit, successors to Alexander's Hypaspists, and because they are no longer Hoplites with aspis, but carry sarissa and pelte, then these 'shieldbearers' are now, logically enough, Peltasts.
When I say 'phalanx', I mean it in the sense of 'Main Battle Line', so that the such-and-such army's 'phalanx', would consist of all close order Infantry capable of 'taking their place in the line', all units involved making up the 'phalanx'/main battle line.
Thus at Pydna, Plutarch (Aemilius Paullus XVIII) gives us the order of the Macedonian army as it is led out of camp - first the Thracians (thureophoroi) then the mercenaries and Paeonians with all kinds of arms....these would form the flank guard to the phalanx/main battle line.... then come the Peltasts/Agema ('picked men') in fresh scarlet tunics. They "take their place in the line", and the position of Honour on the right. Next, come the 'Bronzeshields', the soldiers of the 'Line Infantry', then after them the 'other' division of Line troops (the 'Whiteshields'). We are not told the composition of the left flank guard, or what the cavalry were doing, but it should have consisted of Macedonian allies etc. On the Roman side, the Allies , including cohorts of Paeligni and Marrucini form the lead/left flank, opposite the Peltasts. The 1st Legion are next, overlapping the Peltasts and facing the 'Bronzeshields', then the 2nd Legion face the 'Whiteshields'......on the right wing, where the battle began by the river, the Roman Allies, including those of the Latin status and led by 34 elephants, charge and break the Macedonian allies of their left flank guard. The Legions, at first pushed back by the solid Macedonian 'phalanx/main battle line', manage to break up into individual maniples ( Paullus deliberately ordered this, a very risky tactic, as it sacrificed the cohesion of his line and could have led to rout...as so often happened when a line 'broke'...but he was desperate and staring defeat in the face...) and they successfully interpenetrate the small gaps etc which inevitably appear in a long Battle-Line.... On the Roman left, the Paeligni found themselves pushed back by the sarissas of the Peltasts, and in desperation fling their standard into the Macedonian line ( c.f. Caesar's standard bearer wading ashore alone in the invasion of Britain...loss of a standard was a big deal).
Fortunately, although the Phalanx presses steadily on, the Macedonian left flank gives way, exposing the Phalanx/main line, and as Livy says"..but if by attacks at different points you force the troops to swing round their spears, unwieldy as they are by reason of their length and weight, they become entangled in a disorderly mass..." The Macedonian line collapses from their left, the Peltasts on the right apparently fighting to the last. The Macedonians throw down their sarissas and flee, to be butchered by the Romans.....
It is fairly clear that the Macedonian Phalanx consists of (from their right to left) Peltasts, Bronzeshields, and Whiteshields all of whom are sarissa armed, and possibly any 'Line troops' of their Allies fit to take their place in the Phalanx, and that as per convention, the Phalanx flanks are protected by Flank guards of lighter troops - Thureophoroi such as the Thracians who can fight in open or close order, and light-armed missile troops, who on this occasion ( an encounter battle rather than set-piece) do not appear to have had time to perform their traditional role of screening/skirmishing in front while the Phalanx forms.......we do not hear of any active role for the Roman equivalent Velites either....
) )Also, I am wondering if some of our discusion is the result of slightly different meanings we place on the word 'phalanx'?
When Inaki says that Peltasts were not part of the 'phalanx', and I say they were, I believe we are using 'phalanx' in slightly different ways.
I think ( correct me if I am wrong) that Inaki means 'Line Infantry' when he says 'phalanx', and it is correct that they are not 'Line Infantry', but rather an elite guard unit, successors to Alexander's Hypaspists, and because they are no longer Hoplites with aspis, but carry sarissa and pelte, then these 'shieldbearers' are now, logically enough, Peltasts.
When I say 'phalanx', I mean it in the sense of 'Main Battle Line', so that the such-and-such army's 'phalanx', would consist of all close order Infantry capable of 'taking their place in the line', all units involved making up the 'phalanx'/main battle line.
Thus at Pydna, Plutarch (Aemilius Paullus XVIII) gives us the order of the Macedonian army as it is led out of camp - first the Thracians (thureophoroi) then the mercenaries and Paeonians with all kinds of arms....these would form the flank guard to the phalanx/main battle line.... then come the Peltasts/Agema ('picked men') in fresh scarlet tunics. They "take their place in the line", and the position of Honour on the right. Next, come the 'Bronzeshields', the soldiers of the 'Line Infantry', then after them the 'other' division of Line troops (the 'Whiteshields'). We are not told the composition of the left flank guard, or what the cavalry were doing, but it should have consisted of Macedonian allies etc. On the Roman side, the Allies , including cohorts of Paeligni and Marrucini form the lead/left flank, opposite the Peltasts. The 1st Legion are next, overlapping the Peltasts and facing the 'Bronzeshields', then the 2nd Legion face the 'Whiteshields'......on the right wing, where the battle began by the river, the Roman Allies, including those of the Latin status and led by 34 elephants, charge and break the Macedonian allies of their left flank guard. The Legions, at first pushed back by the solid Macedonian 'phalanx/main battle line', manage to break up into individual maniples ( Paullus deliberately ordered this, a very risky tactic, as it sacrificed the cohesion of his line and could have led to rout...as so often happened when a line 'broke'...but he was desperate and staring defeat in the face...) and they successfully interpenetrate the small gaps etc which inevitably appear in a long Battle-Line.... On the Roman left, the Paeligni found themselves pushed back by the sarissas of the Peltasts, and in desperation fling their standard into the Macedonian line ( c.f. Caesar's standard bearer wading ashore alone in the invasion of Britain...loss of a standard was a big deal).
Fortunately, although the Phalanx presses steadily on, the Macedonian left flank gives way, exposing the Phalanx/main line, and as Livy says"..but if by attacks at different points you force the troops to swing round their spears, unwieldy as they are by reason of their length and weight, they become entangled in a disorderly mass..." The Macedonian line collapses from their left, the Peltasts on the right apparently fighting to the last. The Macedonians throw down their sarissas and flee, to be butchered by the Romans.....
It is fairly clear that the Macedonian Phalanx consists of (from their right to left) Peltasts, Bronzeshields, and Whiteshields all of whom are sarissa armed, and possibly any 'Line troops' of their Allies fit to take their place in the Phalanx, and that as per convention, the Phalanx flanks are protected by Flank guards of lighter troops - Thureophoroi such as the Thracians who can fight in open or close order, and light-armed missile troops, who on this occasion ( an encounter battle rather than set-piece) do not appear to have had time to perform their traditional role of screening/skirmishing in front while the Phalanx forms.......we do not hear of any active role for the Roman equivalent Velites either....
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
