Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
spear or pilum?
#68
Quote: By scaling this against the figure, ( swing it upright) it becomes apparent that the weapon is a lttle over the soldier's height - lancea length !
Refresh my memory - what are you arguing that the lancea was? A thrusting or throwing spear?
I would say the spear length (a man's height or taller) seems to be what we (today) in general refer to as a hasta?

Quote:On a more general note, I am getting the strong impression ( see e.g. enquiries on the 'Byzantine weapons' thread - though I wish I had a copy of Maurice! ) that like 'Hasta' in latin, 'kontos' has a generic meaning; in this case of, "any thick shafted weapon/shaft/pole, especially if tipped with iron".... and that its specific meaning depends on context, or whatever shafted weapon happens to be in vogue at a particular period....thus it can apply equally to a boathook, a punting pole/bargepole, a heavy cavalry spear, or a 'pilum' :? ) D

Yeah, I noticed you were thinking of that. Big Grin However, I can't follow you there. You would have to prove at what point the kontos would start changing meaning from a thrusting spear to a throwing spear, if you want ancient authors to use it a translation for a pilum. For at this moment I think that throughout Roman military history it did not change meaning - it remains mainly used for a thrusting spear, either with cavalry or infantry.

So why would any author it also denote a throwing spear, seeing that we have enough words for such a weapon?

And if you discount Arrian for the moment (I promise I deal with Arrian's Acies 16, 17 and 26 in great detail soon), are there occurances where we clearly can see that an author used the word 'kontos' for a 'pilum'without doubt?
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
Reply


Messages In This Thread
spear or pilum? - by vergilius - 01-16-2008, 12:59 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. Demetrius - 01-16-2008, 04:59 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Jasper Oorthuys - 01-16-2008, 06:12 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-16-2008, 06:13 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by arklore70 - 01-16-2008, 06:17 PM
Javelins? - by Marcus Julius - 01-17-2008, 04:40 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. Demetrius - 01-17-2008, 04:59 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Marcus Julius - 01-17-2008, 05:35 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by vergilius - 01-17-2008, 07:54 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by vergilius - 01-17-2008, 10:48 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Matthew Amt - 01-17-2008, 03:17 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-17-2008, 04:03 PM
Spear or Pila - by Paullus Scipio - 01-18-2008, 03:52 AM
Re: Spear or Pila - by Robert Vermaat - 01-18-2008, 07:36 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Matthew Amt - 01-18-2008, 05:43 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Crispvs - 01-18-2008, 06:16 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by vergilius - 01-21-2008, 02:42 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Nerva - 01-21-2008, 04:34 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER - 01-21-2008, 06:17 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-21-2008, 06:43 PM
Re: Spear or Pila - by D B Campbell - 01-21-2008, 07:55 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. Demetrius - 01-21-2008, 07:59 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-21-2008, 08:02 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. Demetrius - 01-21-2008, 08:18 PM
Spear or Pilum? - by Paullus Scipio - 01-22-2008, 07:29 AM
Livy - by Robert Vermaat - 01-22-2008, 11:01 AM
Curtius Rufus - by Robert Vermaat - 01-22-2008, 11:02 AM
Vegetius - by Robert Vermaat - 01-22-2008, 11:03 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Crispvs - 01-22-2008, 01:08 PM
Arrian - by Robert Vermaat - 01-22-2008, 01:13 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-22-2008, 01:16 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER - 01-22-2008, 01:35 PM
Flavius Josephus - by Robert Vermaat - 01-22-2008, 01:35 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-22-2008, 01:40 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER - 01-22-2008, 01:52 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-22-2008, 03:17 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER - 01-22-2008, 03:50 PM
Re: Arrian - by D B Campbell - 01-22-2008, 09:05 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-22-2008, 09:10 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-23-2008, 07:54 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-23-2008, 07:58 AM
Spear or pilum? - by Paullus Scipio - 01-23-2008, 10:21 AM
Re: Spear or pilum? - by D B Campbell - 01-23-2008, 11:50 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-23-2008, 04:00 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Senovara - 01-23-2008, 06:38 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert - 01-23-2008, 08:43 PM
Spear or Pilum? - by Paullus Scipio - 01-24-2008, 04:09 AM
Re: Spear or Pilum? - by D B Campbell - 01-24-2008, 03:03 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Senovara - 01-24-2008, 06:54 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert - 01-24-2008, 08:21 PM
Spear or Pilum - by Paullus Scipio - 01-25-2008, 07:22 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by D B Campbell - 01-25-2008, 11:43 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Paulus Claudius Damianus - 01-25-2008, 12:34 PM
Spear or Pila? - by Paullus Scipio - 01-25-2008, 05:28 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert - 01-25-2008, 06:03 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by maarten - 01-25-2008, 08:15 PM
Spear or Pila ? - by Paullus Scipio - 01-25-2008, 11:12 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert - 01-26-2008, 12:41 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. Demetrius - 01-26-2008, 03:11 PM
Re: Spear or Pilum - by D B Campbell - 01-26-2008, 07:34 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-27-2008, 12:16 PM
Spear or Pilum? - by Paullus Scipio - 01-28-2008, 07:26 AM
Re: Spear or Pilum - by Robert Vermaat - 01-31-2008, 06:39 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-31-2008, 06:45 PM
Spear or pila? - by Paullus Scipio - 01-31-2008, 08:52 PM
Re: Spear or pila? - by Robert Vermaat - 02-01-2008, 12:19 AM
Spear or Pilum? - by Paullus Scipio - 02-01-2008, 01:41 AM
Re: Spear or Pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 02-01-2008, 09:02 AM
Spear or Pila? - by Paullus Scipio - 02-04-2008, 03:26 AM
Re: Spear or Pila? - by Robert Vermaat - 02-04-2008, 09:48 AM
Spear or Pilum? - by Paullus Scipio - 02-15-2008, 07:06 AM
Re: Spear or Pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 02-16-2008, 04:42 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 03-09-2008, 08:11 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert - 04-12-2008, 07:22 PM
Spear and Pilum - by Paullus Scipio - 04-13-2008, 01:39 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert - 04-13-2008, 12:36 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by cjasper_fernandez07 - 04-13-2008, 12:55 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by PMBardunias - 04-13-2008, 02:21 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert - 04-13-2008, 03:12 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Magnus - 04-14-2008, 06:14 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by PMBardunias - 04-14-2008, 02:31 PM

Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Spear of Jesus TV Show(Spear of Destiny) Anonymous 4 2,614 04-13-2004, 02:25 PM
Last Post: Anonymous

Forum Jump: