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spear or pilum?
#29
Quote:
Quote:Vegetius mentioned the kontos as an infantry spear by referring to enemy infantry as ‘contati’, as well as the ‘contus’ being used as a throwing weapon in a siege (Veg. III.6, IV.17). So here the kontus, a two-handed cavalry thrusting weapon, already becomes an infantry weapon that can be thrown
.....something is wrong with your references here - Vegetius wrote in latin(not greek), and there are only three books ( so no book IV) but whatever the correct source/reference, there is again no problem provided we remember the 'kontos' is the preferred greek translation of pilum( or as Vegetius tells us, latterly called spiculum)...so the pilum/spiculum is thrown in a siege, and barbarian infantry may carry it.
Well, my references are quite OK here, I checked it.
Book IV is mostly on siege warfare and, all too bad, the English translations online fail to translate it. Nevertheless we have a good online version from the Latin Library..
Anyway, even though Vegetius wrote in Latin, it is the terminology he used:
Veg. III.6: Iam uero utrum peditibus an equitibus, utrum contatis an sagittariis amplius ualeant,
Veg. IV.17: In superioribus autem turris illius partibus contati et sagittarii collocantur, qui defensores urbis ex alto contis missibilibus saxisque prosternant.

And actually, the description of the two-handed Sarmatian cavalry spears with a similar word as the (one-handed) infantry spear may not cause confusion, but it’s typical for the terminology – just about any pole arm is called a hasta in this list, whether it’s a two-handed infantry spear, a two-handed cavalry spear, a longer or a shorter infantry spear. If that’s not confusing I don’t know what is.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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Messages In This Thread
spear or pilum? - by vergilius - 01-16-2008, 12:59 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. Demetrius - 01-16-2008, 04:59 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Jasper Oorthuys - 01-16-2008, 06:12 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-16-2008, 06:13 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by arklore70 - 01-16-2008, 06:17 PM
Javelins? - by Marcus Julius - 01-17-2008, 04:40 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. Demetrius - 01-17-2008, 04:59 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Marcus Julius - 01-17-2008, 05:35 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by vergilius - 01-17-2008, 07:54 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by vergilius - 01-17-2008, 10:48 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Matthew Amt - 01-17-2008, 03:17 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-17-2008, 04:03 PM
Spear or Pila - by Paullus Scipio - 01-18-2008, 03:52 AM
Re: Spear or Pila - by Robert Vermaat - 01-18-2008, 07:36 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Matthew Amt - 01-18-2008, 05:43 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Crispvs - 01-18-2008, 06:16 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by vergilius - 01-21-2008, 02:42 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Nerva - 01-21-2008, 04:34 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER - 01-21-2008, 06:17 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-21-2008, 06:43 PM
Re: Spear or Pila - by D B Campbell - 01-21-2008, 07:55 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. Demetrius - 01-21-2008, 07:59 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-21-2008, 08:02 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. Demetrius - 01-21-2008, 08:18 PM
Spear or Pilum? - by Paullus Scipio - 01-22-2008, 07:29 AM
Livy - by Robert Vermaat - 01-22-2008, 11:01 AM
Curtius Rufus - by Robert Vermaat - 01-22-2008, 11:02 AM
Vegetius - by Robert Vermaat - 01-22-2008, 11:03 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Crispvs - 01-22-2008, 01:08 PM
Arrian - by Robert Vermaat - 01-22-2008, 01:13 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-22-2008, 01:16 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER - 01-22-2008, 01:35 PM
Flavius Josephus - by Robert Vermaat - 01-22-2008, 01:35 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-22-2008, 01:40 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER - 01-22-2008, 01:52 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-22-2008, 03:17 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER - 01-22-2008, 03:50 PM
Re: Arrian - by D B Campbell - 01-22-2008, 09:05 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-22-2008, 09:10 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-23-2008, 07:54 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-23-2008, 07:58 AM
Spear or pilum? - by Paullus Scipio - 01-23-2008, 10:21 AM
Re: Spear or pilum? - by D B Campbell - 01-23-2008, 11:50 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-23-2008, 04:00 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Senovara - 01-23-2008, 06:38 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert - 01-23-2008, 08:43 PM
Spear or Pilum? - by Paullus Scipio - 01-24-2008, 04:09 AM
Re: Spear or Pilum? - by D B Campbell - 01-24-2008, 03:03 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Senovara - 01-24-2008, 06:54 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert - 01-24-2008, 08:21 PM
Spear or Pilum - by Paullus Scipio - 01-25-2008, 07:22 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by D B Campbell - 01-25-2008, 11:43 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Paulus Claudius Damianus - 01-25-2008, 12:34 PM
Spear or Pila? - by Paullus Scipio - 01-25-2008, 05:28 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert - 01-25-2008, 06:03 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by maarten - 01-25-2008, 08:15 PM
Spear or Pila ? - by Paullus Scipio - 01-25-2008, 11:12 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert - 01-26-2008, 12:41 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by M. Demetrius - 01-26-2008, 03:11 PM
Re: Spear or Pilum - by D B Campbell - 01-26-2008, 07:34 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 01-27-2008, 12:16 PM
Spear or Pilum? - by Paullus Scipio - 01-28-2008, 07:26 AM
Re: Spear or Pilum - by Robert Vermaat - 01-31-2008, 06:39 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Gaius Julius Caesar - 01-31-2008, 06:45 PM
Spear or pila? - by Paullus Scipio - 01-31-2008, 08:52 PM
Re: Spear or pila? - by Robert Vermaat - 02-01-2008, 12:19 AM
Spear or Pilum? - by Paullus Scipio - 02-01-2008, 01:41 AM
Re: Spear or Pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 02-01-2008, 09:02 AM
Spear or Pila? - by Paullus Scipio - 02-04-2008, 03:26 AM
Re: Spear or Pila? - by Robert Vermaat - 02-04-2008, 09:48 AM
Spear or Pilum? - by Paullus Scipio - 02-15-2008, 07:06 AM
Re: Spear or Pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 02-16-2008, 04:42 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert Vermaat - 03-09-2008, 08:11 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert - 04-12-2008, 07:22 PM
Spear and Pilum - by Paullus Scipio - 04-13-2008, 01:39 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert - 04-13-2008, 12:36 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by cjasper_fernandez07 - 04-13-2008, 12:55 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by PMBardunias - 04-13-2008, 02:21 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Robert - 04-13-2008, 03:12 PM
Re: spear or pilum? - by Magnus - 04-14-2008, 06:14 AM
Re: spear or pilum? - by PMBardunias - 04-14-2008, 02:31 PM

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