Germanic names

[Chilperic]

Someone's post then said that there could not have been a Germanic cultural influence, particularly dismissing a Gothic intrusion, in Britain before the Anglo Saxons. Nada. Of the Roman troops and cavalry stationed in Britain for the last two centuries before the withdrawal, I would say that 90 percent were Germans from one tribe or another;

Got any evidence for that? At all?
In any case, Germani in the Empire tended rapidly to adopt Roman cultural influences, names etc., at least until the late fourth century.

It is not helpful to discuss people as 'Germans from one tribe or another'. The 'tribes' of Germani were different from each other, with no sense of a shared 'Germanic' identity. Lumping them together like this - as is still done all too often, so I am not singling you out here - is misleading; it is essentially a nineteenth-century construct (though there are works on this theme going back to the 16th). The first time Franks and Goths realised they had anything in common was in the eighth century during the wars against the Arabs in southern Gaul. The first time that Theodisc (Deutsch) is used as a general qualifier is in the ninth century in the the Eastern Frankish kingdom during the break up of Louis the Pious' Empire: in the kingdom of Louis 'The German', to give his realm an identity separate from that of the Romance-speaking West Franks. In a strict sense there are no 'Germans' (as opposed to linguistic Germanic-speakers, or people lumped together chauvinistically as Germani by the Romans) before the ninth century.

The dismissal that the Welsh name Tewdrig was not originally Gothic is incorrect. It was in fact Theodoric, as John Morris claimed. Perhaps Morris is not trustworthy but he was correct on this point; and Tewdrig's father Theithfallt was actually Theudebald, about as Gothic as you can get without wearing black eyeshadow and sticking metal in your face.

Again, I'd like to see some evidence here, rather than assertion. That Theudebald is 'as Gothic as you can get' is rather undermined by the fact that I'm not aware of any Goth called Theudebald, which is a Frankish name. The first Austrasian dynasty - Theuderic I, Theuderbert I and Theudebald - are doubtless more likely influences upon these names than the Goths.

Theodoric is a name recorded among people other than Goths. There is a Theoderic mentioned in the Bernician king-list, too. Perhaps even more significantly, there is a Breton ruler called Theoderic mentioned by a contemporary, Gregory of Tours (Ten Books of Histories, 5.16), so even if the name is 'Germanic' it doesn't mean the person in question was a Germanic-speaker of any sort. IIRC Morris claimed some link between this figure and the Tewdrig in the genealogies (not exactly reliable sources, lest we forget) but on the basis of no evidence.

Not everyone named Elvis after 'The King' is an American... Not everyone named Theoderic after whichever Gothic king of that name (even assuming that they were) was a Goth. That is a very different sort of influence from the actual presence of Goths.

For myself, although the 'Theod-' (or Thiud-) element has a Germanic etymology, I have a hunch that it was chosen to alliterate and make a link with the Roman name Theodosius, whose dynasty ruled the Roman world when these names begin to be attested among Germanic-speaking barbarian leaders.

Guy